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Last week, I had you read an article by Tony Wagner called "Rigor Redefined." In it, he references many AP classes that he observed and how, in simple terms, he found them woefully inadequate.
Although I asked you to write a reaction paper to this article, I would like you to take this opportunity to tell me what you really thought of this article, specifically about what he mentioned were the skills that CEOs and company execs really look for in their new hires.
Do you feel as though your schooling thus far has prepared you for what these companies appear to be looking for?
Go a step further and consider the job pursuits you in which you hope to engage. What do you want to do? If you left school right now, do you feel as though you would be work-place ready and prepared for what they want? Why or why not?
What about the AP classes Wagner references...do they sound familiar to you? Why? We will be talking about your answers to my "Curriculum question" this week as well, so use this discussion as a way to gather your thoughts.
(450 words/50pts)
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I absolutely, positively, whole-heartedly agree with Tony Wagner. Three years in high school and I've never dreamed that high school classes would be such a, as some people call it, "Joke." The fears spelled out in Wagner's article are exactly the fears I've panicking about since the innocent days of freshman year. Back then I envisioned high school as a place where the mind will be introduced and explored and challenged to a huge extent that once I leave, I will be a different, more capable person--more adept with the skills I KNOW I lacked. Yet, tragedies such as "memorizing for the test and forgetting afterwards," at times, truly made me weep (with real life tears) over the deteriorating educational system. Some students, especially in my Calculus class, just don't care. Some teachers, in fact, just don't care. This lack of faith and mind-set of 'test-prep' is plaguing our children and as a result, our future, I feel, will be crumbling. I've always suspected that anything institutionalized will eventually fall apart.
ReplyDeleteMy schooling has had some positive effects to my overall skills in life, but generally, school has failed me. Back in my freshman year, I was silent. By the time I entered my sophomore year, I hoped that the "many discussions" and "loads of writing assignments" would prepare me to be a better public speaker and debater. However, distractions have caused my English class to be side-tracked--for months on end. At times, I still continue to struggle to write and express my words coherently based on the sheer fact that I have not been forced to speak. I am top of my class and until just recently I could barely speak in a way that was concise but effective. So many people comment on how "smart" I am, but in actually I believe I am not even close. Now the disastrous effects have caught up to me as I strain to find myself a part-time job--for the past year. I still am unemployed.
With that said, I am totally unprepared for the workforce. Recently, I believe that I am closer than I've even been to successful writing, because I've taken my own "development of skills" into my own hands. Partly the failures of my past conversations contributed to my belief in “fending for myself.” I've initiated discussions with friends who have in turn aided my progress. Still, I believe, if in a company workforce, I would strive high, but my quite adolescent skills will drag me down. In the area of job pursuits, I'm not sure what I would want to do. Yet, because I do not want to go into anything science-related, I know I will be interacting with people on a daily basis. My skills are getting there, but they are not quite to the standards I or a company would want them to be.
Now, the AP classes Wagner described are, I pessimistically believe, better than some classes here at the Oak. First of all, in AP Chemistry, so much time has been spent on test-prep that we've literally had ONE lab. (Matlack has mentioned we would compete one each month...) Even with labs two days a week, we do not even have the time to delve into hands-on procedures because of the stress of standardized tests! On other hand, the AP English class in this article reminds me more of my Calculus class than AP Lang. (Bunje would never tolerate this behavior). Almost daily, I feel as if Ms. Baird is teaching to a bunch of sleeping or socializing students. She simply writes and speaks--no eye contact. I am not kidding when I say, only about three people truly make an effort. Similarly, handful of students skip Cervi's class and continually hand in homework WEEKS late.
ReplyDeleteThese cataclysmic events that take place almost everyday in my life make me EXTREMELY fearful for our nation's future. And with the events of our schools, our economy, and our decaying morals--I have never been closer to considering a future of doom for humanity :(
Absolutely not -- school is stigmatized with failure in preparation. I would go a step further though; companies are not the most important thing in life. If school does not prepare you to be a perfect replacement and to fit neatly into a tidy slot in society, big deal. The purpose of school in the first place shouldn’t be to make everyone interchangeable parts. As Mr. Matlack has on his wall of sententious sayings, the purpose of education is to teach society the right from the wrong and give them the wisdom to prefer the right over the wrong. Education is therefore life itself; not the preparation for life. In this aspect, the only aspect that matters, school has failed: we learn how to take the derivative of cosine, not how to make ourselves better people.
ReplyDeleteDespite this, if I left school right now, I feel I am perfectly prepared for any job. I want to save the world. You don’t need a 5 on the AP Chemistry exam to do that. Applicably, I am fairly sure that my dream job would be on the Council of Foreign Relations, visiting Japan and other Southeast Asian countries to shorten the gap of ignorance Americans have of other cultures. In order to be successful at this job, an individual must be an excellent orator, debater and writer. While I may not be excellent, I have the ability to learn how to be. I have potential and the ideal mindset and background from which this potential can manifest. This isn’t because school has taught me to speak decently -- no, not at all. I taught myself.
Now, Wagner -- you couldn’t be more right. However, I’d have to say there are some exceptions. AP Language and Composition (of course!), AP Chemistry, and AP US Government are very thought-provoking classes. In Government, Cera would baffle the class with in depth analyses of a politician’s motives and actions. Cera would also demand that the class make connections between fundamental political maxims and behavior. Thus, Cera not only taught me government, he taught me how to be better at life, aka the purpose of education. With regards to Chemistry, Mr. Matlack leaves the class to itself to figure out problems and never, ever just gives the answer. We do constructive group work almost daily. And Lang, of course, is anything but a walk in a park. It also stimulates introspection and growth, which is why I love it. Nonetheless, Wagner, this is the exception, definitely. Most of my classes consist of memorization and giving students who could care less answers for free. It’s frustrating. In my AP Macroeconomics class, there is literally, no hyperbole, a kid that sleeps EVERYDAY. No prevarication. I am so incensed by this idiot and I don’t understand why he’s still passing in that class. School should be about learning life-lessons: how to communicate clearly, how to listen, how to be a hero. Knowing the anti-derivative of an inverse function is dandy, but without any value attached, it’s worthless.
The reason my parents wanted to move to the states was because Egypt's education was changing to the memorize for the test and forget about it afterwards. My parents said that when they were younger it was different and that their minds were provoked to think and discover. They told me, they enjoyed education. Then they came here and everything is well. From the first child to the last (me) there is a ten year gap, therefore my parents have witnessed a lot of change and realized that the education system is turning to what they feared, memorize to momentarily succeed.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that our schooling systems have been trying, though I must say some teachers try, to make us think for ourselves and to learn from trial and error. If it's fed to you, or if your mind is a pretty little teacup that will be poured with whatever the authority spills in, then you are not learning. Most likely, you don't fully understand, you might know it but not really get it. What? Why? Where? How? are always spinning through my head and that is always annoying to teachers. I remember in second grade, my teacher send home a note that stated, "Manar's questioning habit has become a disturbance and needs to stop for me to be able to teach." My dad was shocked that the teacher was complaining that a student actually wanted to understand and be taught. Ever since my dad has always had side lessons for me to be open minded and learn on my own. I've witnessed way too many teachers' faces twist with annoyance when I ask a question. It's embarrassing, therefore I stopped with certain teachers, and learned to teach myself how to find information and read on my own. I'm not cocky and saying I got nothing out of school, that's ridiculous. I just believe after a certain time of the standard learning that we need to be on our own, I have been on my own. I remember nights where I struggled with my English and I would sit under the covers with a flash light (yes it happens in real life) and read and struggle to get through it and go back and reread to understand the second time around, until one of my parents yelled at me and confiscated the book. No one told me to do that extra reading, only one teacher helped me but then she wasn't my teacher anymore and I realized not all teachers truly cared. So I stopped caring.
As Bunje already knows, I HATE school and the standards set, if it wasn't for the socializing/communication aspect and some English and History lessons, and of course my strict parents I would have dropped out. YES, I TRULY WOULD HAVE. I'm not dumb, I learned most of what I know by myself. I read endlessly and I feel like that's all I want and need out of school. I like learning new material, but barely is ever truly taught. What I want to do in life, most likely might seem ridiculous to a lot of you, but I want my family to be my first priority. I want to maybe (free-write) blogs, teach, edit, or write pieces or be an activist, nothing more though then at the end of a work day, if I do work a full day time job, I would be with my family and be involved in the community. I want to raise my children in a way to avoid corruptness, to over think, and to be open minded. I don't want little natural Einsteins, but I want them to WANT to have knowledge. Thing is though I got that from home, which is a building block of life, and if more people were involved with the minds of their children then future generations would be a lot well off. Of course, I believe that if you don't like children, don't have patience, and don't love teaching then DON'T TEACH. School is such an essential and big part of our lives, I should not dread going to it. I should not feel like I am wasting my time. If I left school now, I would be absolutely be okay because my future is mostly about personal wishes, emotional communication and involvement, and independent learning, maybe the teaching and editing wouldn't work out but that's okay, and my road of learning and new knowledge would never come to an end, EVER.
ReplyDeleteAs for Wagner, he is right about the majority but I can't really tell because I do not consider myself an AP student. I did what was considered "failing" in my family during freshmen and Sophomore year, and yet I know I'm not stupid or at a significantly lower level, but I do know I am not as smart as others. I simply failed because I didn't think it mattered. I do not justify it and I would do it differently if I had the chance, but barely any teachers cared, and so they never truly taught, I thought why should I do work that won't help me. So this year I took AP classes at Atlantic City and I was doing fine but I wasn't benefiting from them. I was getting a grade, and I didn't know what was behind it or the benefits. So I dropped them all but one, AP Language and Composition. It's the only thing I enjoy, even if I'll fail or haven't even signed up for the AP test, I feel like I'm getting something out of it, and even if it turns out not much then at least it's practice for something I love and want to be part of my future. I love that we think, converse, and get to be open minded. I'm learning things that sometimes have nothing to do with Language and Composition. I like how we are respected as opinionated humans, not kids with no say. It's different, most other classes I just go through like they're nothing except Algebra but that's because I lost the ability to comprehend any math related subject. So when Wagner refers to AP students, I don't feel like it's my place to judge or state much, simply because I am not an AP student.
Deanna: “If school does not prepare you to be a perfect replacement and to fit neatly into a tidy slot in society, big deal. The purpose of school in the first place shouldn’t be to make everyone interchangeable parts.”
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Not everyone wants a job in “the business world”. My dream job would be getting paid to ride/train, and though I’m not sure what my “#2” (and much more realistic) career choice would be at the moment, it is not in corporate America. Still, like you, I agreed with Wagner in that school, for the most part, is failing to provide students with the learning how to learn and think and the Matlackian moral/“becoming better people” basics that, without which, many students will drift off course. This worries me, since so many students don’t have the supportive family environment or personal inspiration/desire/ability/fill-in-the-blank to develop these abilities on their own.
Manar: “What? Why? Where? How? are always spinning through my head and that is always annoying to teachers.”
ReplyDeleteI absolutely cannot stand this! I’ve been lucky enough to have a lot of great teachers, but I have also met a few like you described. I was always taught that asking questions is a good thing; it shows that you are trying to understand a concept and that you are genuinely interested in learning. If a teacher discourages this, they risk squishing one of the best characteristics a student can have: a drive to learn. I believe that if a student has this characteristic, even if he or she doesn’t always make the A, or even B, honor roll, has never even seen an honors course, and is far from the top of the class, that student can be far more successful in “the real world” than a memorize-it-and-forget student with a 4.0 GPA. I know one girl with some sort of learning disability who takes trans-math sort of courses in junior year… and was invited to apply to NHS. As far as I’m concerned, she deserves this as much as any AP student I know, because she genuinely tries. She works hard in her classes, gets decent grades, studies, asks questions, and has goals for college and the future. She wants to learn, and that’s what counts.
Part Uno
ReplyDeleteI kind of have mixed feelings on this article. See, with AP classes, I believe that the students are always expected to teach themselves because that's basically how it is in college from what I hear. The teacher gives you a book and you yourself have to go in and take out what's important and what pertains to the current lesson. You have to go and research various topics and definitions because you're not given a simple answer. If you're lucky, you can work together with a group to help each other out. It all depends on if you're willing though. The level of your success depends on how dedicated you are to the class.
The way he describe AP Gov was exact. We were really left on our own in that class. I remember going to class and listening to the teacher's questions and never remembering him actually answering them. To me, he just went from topic to topic. So, I had to go in the book myself and read every section (sometimes three times since I had a hard time understanding) and learn the lessons myself. It was a drag, but really taught me to be more independent. Honestly, I believe Wagner is right, but it all depends on the teacher. Bunje, Costal, and Rock always teach us life lessons from time to time, and I've kept a lot of their points in my minds. Most teachers though...they're very distant. I'm not saying I need to be BFF with them, but at least try to get to know me more and maybe offer some real life advice at times instead of some BS text book answer. Seriously, some teachers are like afraid to offer real human opinions. You've been where I am now! Please help out a bit so I can have a good future and not make some horrible mistake?!
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ReplyDeletePart Due
ReplyDeleteYou can't depend on the school and teachers for everything though. You have to earn some street smarts yourself. For me, I don't really need to learn all of this textbook info, but I choose to since I enjoy learning new things. I'm going in a very competitive field that involves many more things instead of just knowing facts and information. I'm going to have to work with millions of people to create scenes in movies, and when animating a scene, I have to listen to the director's exact instructions and make sure his vision is seen through my art. I need to listen to instruction carefully, work with others properly, and be very open when asking for things or voicing my opinion. I've learned most of these things through the art classes I'm taking all the way in Philli. I work in a huge class like I would at college, and sometimes had to work in groups. I have to listen to what the teacher wants, but also be expressive so my piece is unique and surpasses everyone else. If I was put into the big bad world right now, I think I'd be pretty ready. Honestly, most things depend on your people skills. I've learned how to deal with multiple types of people at work, and have gotten some tips from my parents about job interviews. I remember in "The Pursuit of Happiness" where he goes into the office looking like a slob and has no shirt on. They ask him, "What would you say if man walked in here with no shirt, and I hired him? What would you say?" And Will Smith says, "He must have had on some really nice pants."
It impressed the man, and he got the job. I'm not saying that the key is to talk your way through everything, but doing that can certainly sometimes seal a deal.
Shirley: I agree with your description about our AP classes, however I disagree with you about your level of preparedness for the work force. No matter what you get into Shirley, I truly believe you will do well in. You may not start out well, but you are the kind of person that won’t tolerate that for longer than necessary and will quickly rise to the top. You always have. I believe in you Shirley, now believe in yourself!
ReplyDeleteManar: You are an AP student. Whether you like it or not, you’re one of us now! :D And we love you, or at least, I do. :] I agree with nearly everything you said, especially regarding the habit of questioning. That’s crazy you actually got a letter asking you to basically stop thinking. I remember throughout middle school, teachers would always be frustrated with Simon for asking questions, which is why I like Bunje actually takes time to answer his questions. I’m glad you didn’t drop out, because I really enjoy having you in our class. ^_^
KTG: Absolutely! I think the “big bad world,” as you put it, understands that not everybody is a walking textbook. Not just with art, but I think in every aspect of life, companies, owners, etc aren’t interested in how much you know, but rather how much you are willing to learn. In that respect, as you said, people skills go a long way. Be honest --- If the world doesn’t like you, then odds are you aren’t going to go anyway. This is a bit off topic, but I also want to say that I love that you draw! While I don’t take art classes, I love to draw too, Katie. :]
I would like to be a nurse. Most of the skills for being a nurse are learned before college and/or nursing school. I need to be patience and quick on my feet. I have to have great awareness and respect for those in charge. I have to memorize information and be able to relay it whenever I am called upon. These things I learn in high school.
ReplyDeleteSadly, I feel like coming to school most days is a waste of my time. In Gym I play ping pong with Alexis instead of actually working out. (Although we have to get the ball an awful lot…) Second period is AP History and I hardly ever pay attention because Cervi goes too quickly from one idea to the next for me to keep up. My day usually continues about the same way because I have to go home and teach myself the actual lesson anyway.
The skills I have listed above, of course, were learned. However, I do not feel I learned another but memorization this year. I already am pretty aware of everything around me since I am ADD. I have respect for those in charge or I show it, whether or not I believe they deserve it or not. I have patience and can be quick on my feet from karate. Now, all I need now is the medical information to memorize.
Now, my AP classes do sometimes resemble the ones that Wagner explained in his paper, but some are far from it. AP Government seemed to be a huge waste of time. In class, Mr Sera would ask questions but I never knew the answers. So he would say he would bring it up later or go find out on our time so we could discuss it later. The discussion would never occur though. AP History seems a bit like the classes described. If we do not know something, Cervi can hardly contain himself to tell us. NO offence to Cervi, he is totally cool. I learn a lot in Cervi’s class just usually not through his slideshows or presentations. I get more understanding from his guest speakers and videos that I do from anything else because I am never pushed to really think about why history happened. Not even responsibility is taught in this AP class, until recently, because he would except late work weeks after the work was due.
AP Chemistry and AP Lang are completely the opposite from the passage though. AP Chemistry is a bunch of new information for me. Matlack always has us separated into groups after giving us a brief lesson and sends us on our way. Not only do we have to figure out how to solve them without really being able to ask questions (not that we can’t ask, he just answers with another question) but we have to write it on the board and explain it to the entire class. We almost teach a lesson to our class. Our homework has to be neat, organized, and handed in on time. He even gives a little bit of a bonus to those of us who do everything in the right way which makes his students want to do everything in an organized manner. AP Lang is different as well. We often have deep discussions on different areas of writing in out “Writing Workshops.” I learn the best way to fix my work in these workshops. I always leave feeling crappy, but I know I learned something.
All in all, I do feel like I know most of what I need for a real job but I did not learn any of these skills in school. I learned a majority of my life skills through karate. I feel that some AP class are worthless and I would have done better just teaching myself the information than sitting through the class day in and day out. However, there are a couple classes that seem worth it. They seem like they will teach me the important skills I need. I go to school for those classes.
Manar:
ReplyDelete"As Bunje already knows, I HATE school and the standards set, if it wasn't for the socializing/communication aspect and some English and History lessons, and of course my strict parents I would have dropped out."
I absolutely agree with you. If my parents would let me, I would have dropped school a long time ago. Not because I think I know everything but I think the standards set for schools is demeaning and silly and I could learn more outside of school actually in the real world.
Kale
"As Mr. Matlack has on his wall of sententious sayings, the purpose of education is to teach society the right from the wrong and give them the wisdom to prefer the right over the wrong."
I loved how you used a Matlack quote. I always read those and they always seem to be perfect. The one you picked about Education, I remember reading. It made sense. Education is supposed to teach you right from wrong, I just do not feel like High School does this because of all the drama and problems that come with actually going to High School.
Shirley:
ReplyDelete" Similarly, handful of students skip Cervi's class and continually hand in homework WEEKS late."
I hate that. There are people who skip and never get in trouble, always get more time to make-up the "make-up" work, and do it over and over. I feel like the people who actually sit in the class and do all the work should get something but they never do. I am so tired of hearing how so and so skipped, didn't get caught and now has more time to do an assignment.
I’ve been pretty lucky as far as education goes. One of my biggest complaints is how much time is misused. In Lang, chemistry, or recently with the World War II speaker there is not enough time. However there are other classes, where I do almost nothing. I can guarantee you I learned nothing from Health. Basically, I could be much further now than I am, which is disappointing. Making posters that say smoking is bad for you or watching a children’s movie will not prepare me nearly as much as hearing about career paths, internships, or how to interview. My dream job would be a novelist, or to work for some kind of charity or human rights organization. I’m not anywhere near ready to know how to attain them let alone do them. Should I get my degree, then try to work my way up? What degree should I get? Should I go to graduate school? How the heck can I afford graduate school? What do employers want to see from students? I don’t know.
ReplyDeleteI did pretty well on the AP government test, but I can’t remember what years campaign financing changed or the six party shifts. This doesn’t bother me. I see through politician’s motives and schemes. I see how policy can directly impact us or worm it’s way into our lives. It really changed my perspective of leadership and what it takes to keep society intact. I have gotten a lot out of AP United States history, so far. In the last two years, I lost both of my grandfathers who were both veterans. One was an officer in the air force, who crashed in German waters losing two men, and the other was in the navy in the pacific theater. I have always loved them, and I’ve missed them a lot. However Cervi’s class has given me a whole new appreciation and understanding of their lives. The way that veterans have flashbacks that keep them up at night or how a genocide survivor can try to forgive won’t help me on the AP test. Still, I wouldn’t trade these lessons for a 5 on the test.
I believe education should change you. Facts alone should be able to grab you and force you to see the world differently. History and English should have a human quality. They have to have heart and life. Science and math should always relate to the world we will actually have to face. They should develop our thought process and expand our comprehension. I have been blessed with a few classes like this, some of them AP. However I have many more that never even aspired to these standards.
I would agree with Wagner’s thesis in “Rigor Redefined”, if I did not take AP courses. I believe that his statements about advanced placement courses are true of most courses, at most schools, but I don’t take just any courses at just any school. I take the highest level courses available to me, at Oakcrest, courses that are more than schoolwork. They are truly intended to prepare us for the real world, the one that Wagner talks about when he mentions what CEOs and executives work in. That ethereal place beyond school. I feel that much is provided for us to learn what we need to know to get out into the real world and survive, in our advanced classes as well as in our school itself (we get briefed on what’s what when it comes to college and careers every year). Still, I feel that most of my preparation comes from myself, recognizing what is inadequate in myself and changing to suit my environment. I want to be a physicist, and so far my only barrier is education. I have the necessary skills such as teamwork cooperation and being sufficiently fake as not to offend anyone, but need to know a bit more math, a bit more of the technique involved in actually being a physicist. The AP courses that Wagner mentions sound more like honors level or lower than AP – I don’t think that anyone sits around wondering why things steam in Mr. Matlack’s AP Chemistry class, and if they do they shape up real quickly.
ReplyDeleteEarly last summer, the college coordinator of a soccer team that was made up of soon-to-be high school seniors who were all committed to division I schools came to my team’s practice to hold an informational meeting regarding the recruiting process for college athletics. After changing out of my muddy gear and sweaty tee-shirt, I whipped out a pencil and notepad and listened intently. Meanwhile, most of my teammates were distracted by food trays, text messages, and of course, each other. After the meeting, one girl said, “I missed my Gossip Girl reruns for this?” and another called it “a waste of time.” Still, another referred to the meeting as “pointless.”
ReplyDeleteBut two of my teammates, one a junior, another, an ambitious sophomore, and I discussed the finer points of the presentation and then stayed to ask the college coordinator a few questions. I, for one, was not exactly wowed by his rhetoric; he was an okay speaker at best, but the three of us had listened intently to what the man had to say, processed the information, and thought about how to apply our newfound knowledge.
This is not to bash the seventeen other girls on my team who felt they had better things to do (although most people are capable of listening and eating a sandwich and, as Mr. Cervi discovered via fake phone call with the president of AT&T, a text message doesn’t need to be opened immediately), but to shed light on the fact that those who tried to absorb information absorbed information while those who didn’t care wasted their time.
Based on this short meeting and my educational experience, the Law of Conservation applies to learning- you’ll get out what you put in. If a student applies himself and looks to develop the skills sought in the job market, he will develop those skills.
I have been graced with parents and teachers who have let me know what skills I should work towards in school, life, and extracurricular activities. Unfortunately, not every person has the same home support and some who are told what their general goals should be ignore the message, which brings us to the educational system’s tragic flaw- it fails to recover lost students.
When a young student misses or ignores the heads up that he will need certain skills to succeed in the workplace, he’s missed the boat. When he doesn’t pick up on a subject easily, he’s missed the boat. When no one tells him what to strive for, he’s missed the boat. He’s up the creek, and that boat isn’t on a running schedule; no one’s coming back for him.
I think it’s safe to say I got on the boat. If thrown out of school and into work right now, I think I’d be okay. I don’t know exactly what jobs I want to pursue, but I know I want to enter a specialized field. I may not be ready initially to take on the job pursuits I wish, but I have learned to research, compile my findings, and critically draw creative conclusions, so I genuinely feel that I would survive.
Unfortunately, the students stuck up the creek are more likely to leave school and enter the workplace, or at least try to.
I won’t claim that all of my teachers have imbued me with some great piece of knowledge that I will carry with me into my career, but most have. Bits and pieces of Wagner’s descriptions of the AP classes he sat in on shine through in all of my classes at some point. I’ve never had a perfect class, but most of most of my classes has not been overly mechanical. Most, if not all, of my high school teachers have encouraged some degree of independence, and even when they don’t, my foundational learning screams that I don’t need an essay question to think critically and draw connections.
What? Why? Where? How? are always spinning through my head and that is always annoying to teachers. I remember in second grade, my teacher send home a note that stated, "Manar's questioning habit has become a disturbance and needs to stop for me to be able to teach."
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of a friend who complained to me because teachers don't take his questions seriously. He's a funny guy with a very comedic voice, so when he's the one student trying to dig deeper for answers, teachers assume he's kidding. As if it weren't bad enough that "why?" was not considered from the get-go, a teacher laughs off a question. Even if my friend were kidding, I feel as though the teacher should take this, and all times for that matter, as a teachable moment.
Deanna:
ReplyDeleteI love how you mentioned Sera's class. I loved his class for the simple reason that the subject matter was one that I will encounter throughout my entire life, and Sera made me care. Not only can I play "the system" by "sounding smart" when I call on my AP Gov knowledge on an SAT essay, but I can intelligently discuss governmental matters and even use my knowledge to positively impact humanity.
Education is like a 500 dollar bill. Due to some sort of magic practiced by the masses, writing a 500 on a piece of paper makes it incredibly valuable, while in some sort of primitive wilderness that piece of paper only has value as kindling. The typical education system is based around test scores from tests that don’t mean a damn thing to anyone except the people who made them. Its all in where your faith lies. The article proves that most Americans put their faith in the botched, political knot we call school. I (one of little faith in anything or one besides God) see clear as crystal that students today are misguided. Sure we get facts and theories shoved down our tracheas and have our brains sufficiently blended to a nice creamy smoothy consistency in order to retain “knowledge”, but all I’ve gained from these experiences is a strong dislike for education and a desire to escape the restraints placed on me by the “man”. Let me learn damnit! I want to learn leadership, critical thinking, problem solving, and other such “intangibles”. The identities of pi really don’t apply to my life!
ReplyDeleteI would, however, be entirely in the wrong if I said all of my education was pointless to my life. There’s value in the basics of math and science, and possibly greater value in the pursuit of knowledge of the art of language (since we use it constantly). I’ve had a few teachers provide me with the tools I need to succeed as these CEO’s specify, but the majority of my schooling revolved around less than interested teachers fighting to get through a dry curriculum in time for one test or another.
I want to be a real human. My life won’t be mechanic; wake up at 7, be at work by 9, eat at 12, leave at 5, be home by 6, hit the gym, and then go to sleep. I don’t know what career I plan to have yet, but I DO know I won’t be bored. I could drop out of school RIGHT NOW and find work somewhere based on my will power alone. My inquisitive nature would make it interesting, no matter who employed me.
Most of that is the effect of my home life, not so much school. As Wagner illustrated, AP classes tend to be nothing but fact frenzies focused on frustrating students. Though I’ve only had two AP classes in my history, Government proved…distasteful. I can say with complete honesty that I came away from that class with only the slightest increase in understanding of how government works but with a myriad of questions I never would have contemplated before being befuddled by Mr. Sera. Lang, on the other hand, has taught me much more in the field of life (thanks Bunje!). I think it depends entirely on the teacher and where his or her intentions lie. In the case of Sera (and many other teachers of AP) his intentions were to get as many students to memorize as much as possible in as little time as he could to get us prepared for AP testing. Unfortunately, I missed out on any life lessons that could have been there.
Stephanie ~ karate teaches you a lot, kinda like riding and my family have taught me most of what I need to know. its somewhat reassuring that I'm not the only one who misses something at school, but then again how depressing is it that universally students are lacking in their education??? Not everyone can rely on extra activities and good families to learn life skills
ReplyDeleteRobbie:
ReplyDelete"I don’t think that anyone sits around wondering why things steam in Mr. Matlack’s AP Chemistry class, and if they do they shape up real quickly."
Were you saying this was a good thing or a bad thing? I guess I'm confused on whether wondering is a good thing or not knowing why things steam is bad. In chemistry, my mind often wanders to questions that one could consider weird, but I think that this is great because I'm thinking about what I'm learning, not just filing it away to spit out later.
Katie G~ I guess I never considered the implications of an AP class. We are expected to be college students and, like college students, be able to fend for ourselves to an extent. But we're still all 16 and 17, and I believe that counts for something somewhere. College kids had a chance to LIVE that, regardless of our intellect, we will never get. I can only live 16 years, one day at a time. Life is a class I can't double up on.
ReplyDeleteRobby ~ I feel like you're giving too many people the benefit of the doubt. You're a brilliant kid. I don't know many who can rival your knowledge, but that doesn't mean everyone is nearly as bright as you. Just the other day in class I was thinking "How the hell did she come up with this???". I applaud your self teaching and I agree that oakcrest supplies the information we need to retain, but I don't think the necessary skills are so readily available to those without outside sources.
ReplyDeleteMy own craving for knowledge, not school, has prepared me for the workforce. I am not dissing any of my AP teachers. It's not like that. It's just that, out of all of my teachers, only a few have motivated me to do my work and actually learn. Most of the time, the only reson I get anything done or learn anything of value is because it's what I want to do. I have taught myself dedication and persistence in my work. Some people think that school teaches you how to work with people you don't like, but apparently they haven't played softball. Working with eight other people at once for seven days a week is tough, especially considering that uncooperation by one person can make the whole team fall apart. Softball has taught me more about working with other thn school, not to mention it has taught me to apply previous plays at a split second's notice. If you can't think on your feet, you're useless. Between myself and softball, I have learned more than school has ever taught me.
ReplyDeleteWhen I get older, I want to be a buyer (I know this sounds stupid, but let me explain). Buyers work for huge department stores, such as Macy's, and get paid to travel the world buying cheap goods such as clothing and acessories. Macy's will, in turn, sell these items for a huge profit. I don't think that school has prepared me for this job because I've never learned to negotiate. If i tried now, I would be taken advantage of. I wouldn't have enough skills to start working today. I could try, but it's not likely that I could get by on my wits.
ReplyDeleteThe author's depictment of Ap classes is partially true. Some of my classes only require me to memorize material, bu some make me actually think. The auhtor's words certainly aren'y unversal to all AP classes. Two out of the four AP classes I have make me apply knowledge for problem-solving purposes. The others, though, suck. It all depends on the teacher.
KTG-
ReplyDeleteI also hear that colleges are the same as our Ap classes. I tink in college, they make the students just remember material. They hardly ever apply it outside of the classroom. Now that you have bought this point up to me, it makes me think that college will hardly prepare me for the real world either.
Shirley-
ReplyDeleteLike you, I am unsatisfied with hoe far high school has let my mind stretch. I wanted to go into high school and be enlightened. That, needless to say, has not happened often. A couple of classes allowed me to explore on my own, but not many. I don't think we can blame it on AP classes though, because the teachers have to introduce completely new material to us and make us experts on it in about seven months. There's no opportunity for fun.
Robert-
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with you. I don't think AP courses are meant to prepare us for the real world. I think they're meant for us to save money in college. The teachers are required to spend so much time making us memorize new material that we don't every apply it to real life situations. For us, it's all about getting a 5, not preparing us for life.
I’m going to say here what I said in my reaction paper: Despite the belief that AP classes better prepare students for their future (although this may be true to a certain extent) they don’t prepare students to the capacity that they are believed to. I can’t argue that AP classes don’t better prepare students than general classes in most cases. They stimulate students’ brains more and provide them with a vast amount of knowledge that they could never attain through general courses. However, AP classes teach strictly to the AP exam. Teachers teach what they have to teach in order for their students to pass the exam, and in most situations, that’s it. They spend more time teaching us how to cheat the system to figure out multiple choice answers and write in a specific format for a specific type of essay rather than trying to teach us things that we can take past the test. After our test scores come, what are we left with? Nothing significant that will help us excel in the “real world”. I’m not talking down to AP teachers about teaching this way. Essentially, they have to. It’s part of the system. What I’m saying is that the whole AP system doesn’t prepare students for the workforce to the extent that it should. And that’s really unfortunate.
ReplyDeleteIf I left school right now, I don’t think I’d get the job I eventually hope to obtain. I don’t have the communication skills and logical thinking process necessary to excel at such a high level job as I aspire to have. After hearing about the offer presented to Ms. Bunje to teach the Honors English IV class, I decided that it would be the perfect class for me to take. After Kelsey and I discussed it, I couldn’t think a class could have more potential to be more beneficial. It’s not AP. It won’t teach to a test, yet I’ll be surrounded by other intelligent minds that care about school and their future. Ms. Bunje would be able to teach whatever she desires (to a certain extent) and would be able to better develop these crucial skills for her students. With no pressure to know any specific material to pass any specific exam mid May, the class would be able to better prepare me for my future through the refinement of these specific skills, if Ms. Bunje chose to plan it that way of course. Unfortunately though, honors courses won’t allow students to gain college credit, making them seem less prestigious. However, I think they are more beneficial to students in the long run. I know Ms. Bunje always told us that it’d be in our best interest to take AP Lit next year, but it seems to me that honors classes, such as Honors English IV, would be a better decision for my future.
It is not the material that I believe teaches us how to handle things such as critical thinking. I think it’s more of the process of actually being in school and learning how to handle all the stresses that it provides that help us grow into people who think on their toes. It’s also the application of everything that we take from classes and incorporation into our lives that help us become ready for these companies.
ReplyDeleteThe article states that one of the presidents of companies said that “I look for someone who asks good questions…I want people who can engage in good discussion- who can look me in the eye and have a give and take.” I think we all learn this from our high school experience in itself. When I read this article, I kept on thinking about every chemistry test that I’ve failed because it involved us to think critically. I kept feeling stupid and unprepared for them because I wasn’t able to think about the problem in itself. The thing is, we learned all the mechanics. We did multiple problems on things like kinetics, equilibrium, and now even nuclear chemistry; but if you put that in the real world situation, I probably wouldn’t be able to tell you what the hell is going on. It’s the same with Calculus. We don’t know how to apply these things to our daily lives.
But you know what? We don’t need these things for thinking critically. We gain critical thinking through trial and error. We gain them through experiencing mistakes so that the next time we’re face in a similar situation, we know what not to do. It’s like Thomas Edison and the invention of the light bulb. He said “I have not failed 1000 times. I have successfully discovered 1000 ways not to make a light bulb.” Critical thinking can not be taught, it’s just developed in a person.
I feel that it also applies to the six other things that Wagner mentions. Things like leadership, curiosity, adaptability, and initiative all can not be taught in school. It might be experienced through school because of constant contact with peers and situations that help us develop these skills, but it can not be taught.
If I left school right now to pursue a career in fashion, I know I’ll get killed. I’ll drown with all the stuff they’re going to have me do. I don’t think anything can prepare me for the things that the cut throat business has to offer other than actually being in the industry. All the things they ask for need the actual experience and application for that job. We go to school to learn the mechanics of everything. That’s why we do it. We learn how to use the tools, then when we get out there, we finally use the tools.
The thing that resonated with me the most with his AP class reference is the fact that he saw the kids in the AP Government class not answer the questions. Partly, I think was defensive because I know that being in AP Government last year was intimidating because it was our first AP class. I think Wagner shouldn’t have looked into the unresponsiveness of teenagers to not being able to apply themselves because I know I had my reasons why I didn’t answer last year. One of them was being intimidated at being in an environment where there was so much expected of you.
But, I still see his point of students, even at the highest levels, not showing signs of the things that companies are looking for. Which, overall, worried me.
Kaitlin,
ReplyDeleteWhen you said:
"They spend more time teaching us how to cheat the system to figure out multiple choice answers and write in a specific format for a specific type of essay rather than trying to teach us things that we can take past the test."
I was blown away by your choice of words by saying "cheat the system" but still agree with you on what you said. I somehow feel like all we're doing, essentially, is studying for a test all year. I know I keep asking Ms. Baird everyday when we're going to use the derivative of the natural log arcsinx in our natural born lives, but she keeps saying we're going to use it when we turn to rocket science. I just wish we could use this elsewhere and actually retain the information.
Robby,
ReplyDeleteI thought the fact you brought in Mr. Matlack in the AP Chemistry thing really made me laugh. That part of the article made me think about whether or not Wagner really was in an AP class or not. It also made me wonder whether or not there's a difference in the levels rigor between schools' AP programs.
Katie G,
ReplyDelete1. Way to spell the abbreviation of Philadelphia wrong.
2. I really like the fact that you said that a teacher must put their own opinions and emotions in their lessons. When someone teaches us something, specially in English, and they show us how to apply it to life or how they applied it on their own, it makes much more sense. I hate teachers who hate, well basically, teaching. It gives the students no motivation to learn, which in turn, leads to our downfall.
KTG -
ReplyDelete"It was a drag, but really taught me to be more independent. Honestly, I believe Wagner is right, but it all depends on the teacher."
I hear this a lot from people that have taken AP Gov, but honestly, I think that was a subject that he really couldn't have sat us down and taught us plainly. It was up to us to ask questions, which he then would've answered. The teacher was there to give answers and clarifications on concepts, not to fill our heads with the information. That was just something that he couldn't do. It's not like algebra where it's a process, government was a whole complex subject in itself. At least, that's my opinion on it.
JV Gonzales -
ReplyDelete"We gain critical thinking through trial and error."
I agree with this statement, and I also think chemistry was a good example. You can expand on this statement more when we think about Matlack making us coach each other step by step through problems. By having other people see the flaws in us, it makes us stronger, and the exercise in general makes the teacher have to think in different ways.
Kaitlin Hare -
ReplyDelete"It won’t teach to a test, yet I’ll be surrounded by other intelligent minds that care about school and their future."
I completely hate the fact that it seems our courses are only based solely on the fact that we are trying to score 4s and 5s on 1 test, which will save us money. For one thing, that doesn't guarantee that I'm learning the information, which, there's a good chance, I'd much rather just learn it all. For another thing, I don't like the idea of our education just contributing to the business of education and just some assessment that people will probably fail anyway because they aren't good test takers. I got a 3 on the government exam, but I was great at government, I loved the class, I knew everything on the exam, I just don't have good luck with exams. I never have and I probably never will. AP exams just make me angry, which in turn makes me angry with AP classes being based on them.
Sarah: “The way that veterans have flashbacks that keep them up at night or how a genocide survivor can try to forgive won’t help me on the AP test. Still, I wouldn’t trade these lessons for a 5 on the test. I believe education should change you. Facts alone should be able to grab you and force you to see the world differently.”
ReplyDeleteI agree that classes should be able to change you in some way. If a student attends class every day and only goes through the motions while the teacher drones on and does nothing to stimulate interest in learning and development of new personal skills, the time is essentially wasted. I also liked how you mentioned Cervi’s class. I, too, enjoy US history and feel like I’ve gained (among other things, of course) a greater appreciation for, and understanding of men and women like Mr. Fridenberg whose efforts have shaped the America we know today. While some are quick to point out Cervi’s lax policies (lates, etc) and lack of extreme AP-test focus, I personally would get frustrated with a teach-for-the-test mentality and I enjoy his captivating lessons.
I do think that my schooling has contributed to the preparation of appealing to what these companies look for, but I feel like just being in school, meeting everyone in it and experiencing school has contributed far more. For one thing, I was just surprised in the first place that that's what companies are looking for, (or, so it seems) and I feel that the author pointed out very important facts, but the article didn't sit comfortably with me in general. I feel for one maybe it is a good amount of fault to the schools for not teaching us what we need to learn to go out into the "real world", but if that is the case, then it's also the student's faults as well. If the school isn't making that much of an effort is a fact, then how come students aren't doing anything to combat this? I mean, I've certainly heard a lot of complaints, particularly about last year's AP Government class, that there wasn't enough being done for us in AP classes, but honestly, we never did anything about it. Personally I liked Mr. Sera and the class, but for those who didn't particularly like his style and needed more, then why didn't I hear about anyone going up to him and telling him that. Knowing Mr. Sera, he would've done what he could to change our discomfort.
ReplyDeleteI haven't decided on what exactly I want to do yet, but there are two roads that I want to go down. A life of international relations or a life of music. If I left school now, I feel that I would not be prepared at all. I might have enough knowledge to at least give it the best try I can, but it's not going to be significant in the long run. For one, I just don't have experiences with work or adult life in the first place. I don't know about paychecks and interviews and I've never exactly worked before. The actual lessons we are learning in school wouldn't be beneficial to the two choice careers I have in mind and the skills that I would need haven't been developed, they're still little buds that have yet to bloom, so they're basically useless.
The images that Wagner depicted about AP classes sounded very familiar. They're familiar because in a lot of classes, such as calculus, I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm very dependent on teachers to help me. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I'm personally turned off by AP now in general, just by this year and all that it stands for, so I inevitably, and possibly just because of bias, agree with that point of the article, that AP is doing the wrong things. I don't like solely concentrating on a stupid test and I don't like contributing to the growing education "business". I joined AP to learn, to be challenged and to have a different, more intense education than the other individuals in my class. Wagner and I are both angry at AP, but for different reasons. I still don't agree with Wagner that it's solely the school's fault though. Just saying.
The actual classes are what prepares us for the real world. I think it's the whole time management and social aspects of it. Students are always struggling with not having enough time to finish their AP work and then on top of that there is friends that you would like to hang out with but you can't. We learn to put our priorities in order and get done what we need to get done. The material that we actually are learning isn't what is going to prepare us, it may help, but it's not as useful as learning necessary skills such as time management.
ReplyDeletePresidents of companies apparently feel that they “look for someone who asks good questions.. I want people who can engage in good discussion- who can look me in the eye and have a give and take.” We can't learn this skill through a textbook, we gain it through being a student. Wagner mentioned that things such as curiosity and leadership can't be taught in school either. Curiosity and leadership can only be taught through the experience of school. We do group projects with groups and learn to obtain leadership and we are taught confusing lessons which provoke curiosity, but we are not directly taught them.
If I were to go out and get a job now, I honestly think that I would be okay. I can handle stress, I have leadership skills, and I have good time management. I've been playing sports my whole life, multiple at once, and have handled honors and AP classes at the same time. Now that I'm in high school I don't get home until about 6 and then I have limited time to do homework. I've been handling that pretty well so far so I think time management would be the least of my problems. Through those sports, I've learned leadership. I was captain for a lot of teams and I know what it takes to be a leader and set examples when I have to. Also, I've experienced a lot of stressful situations and I still do now because of school work. If I were in business, I think that I would be an alright worker.
When Wagner discusses AP classes, the AP Government example sounded very familiar. I've never taken the course, but I pictured AP History when he said government. Wagner said that the kids in the class weren't answering the questions. In history I know why I don't answer the questions: I don't want to be wrong. It's pretty embarrassing to be in an AP class where you're supposed to be “smart” and you're constantly answering the question wrong. That is why I usually try not to raise my hand I like to sit back and just listen to what everyone else is saying so I can learn from that.
JV: "It is not the material that I believe teaches us how to handle things such as critical thinking. I think it’s more of the process of actually being in school and learning how to handle all the stresses that it provides that help us grow into people who think on their toes."
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you, I pretty much wrote the same idea in my blog. We aren't taught skills like leadership and time management through school, we obtain them through dealing with school. Thanks to school work and teachers we can learn these skills if we do what they ask us to do correctly, but we aren't directly taught them skills.
Alexis: "I do think that my schooling has contributed to the preparation of appealing to what these companies look for, but I feel like just being in school, meeting everyone in it and experiencing school has contributed far more."
ReplyDeleteYou're definitely right about this. Teachers don't teach us those things that businesses look for, we kind of teach ourselves. When we do group projects we learn leadership, when we learn hard lessons we learn curiosity, and when we are assigned lots of homework we learn time management. All of those things are necessary in the work world outside of school.
KTG- I agree with you because when I look at my brother (in college) I don't see him applying anything he's learned so far into the real world. He's in useless classes and he only takes them because he has to. According to him, he only goes to college because he has to. He doesn't gain anything from it, he just studies the night before a test and then forgets everything once he hands in that test. That scares me a little because we're in school for so long and I'd hate to see that everything we ever learned was completely useless..
ReplyDeleteI’ve always been one of those kids that ‘enjoys’ school. I don’t mean that I love doing homework or that taking tests just makes me smile, but I don’t dread coming everyday. When I wake up in the morning, even when I’m exhausted from staying up until 2 am the night before, I still have a sense of “Today is going to be a good day” merely because I know that I will learn SOMETHING. I think that this attitude is what is most lacking in schools today. If everyone had more of the view that everyday is an opportunity to expand their knowledge instead of looking at school as a prison of sorts, more kids would be prepared for the real world. I don’t believe that the school system is lacking in opportunities to be prepared for the future, it’s the students themselves that lack the attitude or drive to learn what needs to be learned in order to succeed. With that said, success is not necessarily the money someone makes in a big-wig executive position in a huge multi-billion dollar company. Success is the ability to move forward, continue to make progress, and always being able to better yourself. Success is being happy and not feeling like you’ve wasted your time.
ReplyDeleteEver since I was a young kid, I’ve always wanted to do something related to the medical field. From Veterinarian to Physical Therapist to Heart Surgeon, I’ve considered it all. Right now, I’m considering entering the field of Forensic Pathology (for those of you who may not know what that is, it’s the person who cuts up dead people to see what killed ‘em). Obviously I’m not prepared education-wise for that field of work since it requires at least eight years of additional schooling after high school, but I think that I am definitely prepared to BECOME prepared. I think that if I left high school right now, I would possess the skills, knowledge, and attitude needed to continue my education in that field of work and be successful. Again, this preparedness comes down to my attitude. Because I have an open mind and have the ability to learn something new from any situation no matter how trivial, I think that I have amassed enough experience in my almost three years in high school to carry me into the next stage of my life.
In Tony Wagner’s examples of AP classes the one I found most familiar was the AP US Government class. Granted, I was not the best student last year, but I don’t think I was the only problem. It’s understandable that AP teachers, especially those in subjects like Government and History, have to cram mass amounts of information into a little time frame, but I think it could be handled a lot better. Instead of breezing through each question like the teacher did in the example class, AP teachers should make sure that each and every student knows what he/she is talking about to ensure the best possible grades on the exam.
I’ll admit that after I finished the first portion of “Rigor Redefined” (“The Schooling Students Need”), I was starting to feel a bit worried. Although I do not yet know what career I would like to pursue—possibly, something in the sciences or, if I am beyond lucky, in the stables—I began to realize that each item Wagner listed would probably be a requisite element of my profession. I’m certainly not ready. I feel that, as Wagner noticed in the classes he sat in on, much of my schooling has been geared toward memorizing facts and passing tests, the kind of tests on which schools reputations depend. I’ve often heard it said that colleges are as much for-profit businesses as educational facilities, and I think elementary and high schools are headed down the same road, if on a more subliminal level. Schools are in the test score business. Having a large roster of AP 5s, HESPA proficients, etc. improves a school’s reputation, and, I am fairly certain that schools must legally (No Child Left Behind? correct me if I’m wrong) have or be reaching certain score ranges. However, as Wagner discovered, just because a school has a good reputation for churning out high scores does not mean that the school is producing students with the skills necessary to thrive in the workplace. Wagner says that companies want to hire workers with such qualities as critical thinking and communication skills and curiosity. Just because students are able to pass tests certainly does not mean they have adequately developed these skills. In a number of classes I have had at Oak, I made it through the year without ever deviating from an “A” average, but I feel like I got virtually nothing out of the course. Health jumps to mind immediately. I got a 100 in that class with hardly any effort, though I cannot remember clearly a thing I learned there. Certainly, I developed little if at all in the areas Wagner listed. What really worries me, though, is that kids failed Health. I will probably survive without having learned the seven skills in Wagner’s list from Health class. But what will they do? What will the boy who spent each day snoozing in the back of the room do? What will the girl who used class as an opportunity to chat with her friends do? These kids are unfocused. They’re also uninspired. Without a teacher who has the ability to spark a flame of interest in them, to pull them out from lala land into an intelligent conversation, they will remain lost. I feel like many teachers are so focused on just pounding information into students’ brains that they forget to stop and look to see if what Matlack calls the “glazed donut look” is washing over their pupils’ eyes. Engagement, and through that, developing the seven skills Wagner detailed, is key.
ReplyDeleteWhile I enjoyed the article and agreed with Wagner 99% of the time, I also I want to point out that not all AP classes are dead bent on just “teaching for the test”. Actually, every AP teacher I have at Oakcrest has strived to push students to become not merely successful test takers but also successful people. Take Lang and Chem for instance. In Lang, we go way above and beyond memorizing lit devices and writing techniques. We discuss and explore the world around us and the people in it, developing our analyzing and critical thinking abilities and we strive to learn more about ourselves and better communicate with one another through projects like This I Believe and declamations, to name a few things. Then, of course, there’s Chem, which is a far cry from the chemistry class Wagner witnessed. Matlack makes class exciting with his jokes and analogies and sneaks life-lessons and advice into lessons. Often, he devotes a portion of class to group problem solving. He tells us to “go to your lab tables”, where we work in groups of approximately 4 students to solve chemistry problems, using group mates to bounce ideas off of. We then present our solutions to the class, learning both as we present ourselves and as we listen to others. Classes like this make learning fun and, at the same time, develop the seven “survival skills”. The problem is, there just are not enough of them.
ReplyDeleteWe live in a fast paced, constantly changing world. Business leaders, or any potential employer, are looking for people who can move easily from one situation and duty to a totally different situation and duty. In short, they're looking for people with adaptability. I have a friend who is going to Champlain College for video game design, but he is also earning a certificate in business management so he can show his adaptability on his resume. But to be truly adaptable in the business world, and Wagner talked about this in Rigor Redefined, is to have critical thinking skills. You need to be able to utilize all your past knowledge from various subjects and solve a problem that may be totally new to you. The problem is, most of my classes have not challenged my critical thinking skills. Every teacher should be aspiring to challenge their students and make them think deeply in new ways. Not only do the students benefit from developing their critical thinking skills, but they also enjoy the class more. The classes I've enjoyed the most, all my English classes at Oakcrest, AP Government, AP U.S. History, were all taught by teachers who engaged me during class. They made me think on my toes. Anyone who was in second period Gov last year remembers my infamous arguments with Mr. Sera, but there was a reason he did that with me. He was teaching me by challenging my political insight, and trust me, I learned some very valuable lessons from him. Government, incidentally, was one of the most fun classes I've ever taken, even if I often left the class fuming. Now compare this to the classes we've all had where you stare at a Powerpoint presentation all period. I think we can all agree that we learn more, and have more fun, in classes that are engaging and challenging.
ReplyDeleteAm I ready to enter the work place? Again, I'll refer back to second period AP Government. I don't remember the exact issue we were discussing in class, but it had something to do with the financial crisis, and Mr. Sera asked me how I would solve a certain problem. The conversation went something like this:
“Well, what would you do?”
“I can't give you specifics, I'm not a Congressman, I'm not as knowledgeable as they are.”
“Trust me, you are.”
If I wanted to start my work in politics right now I think I would be adequately knowledgeable, but not prepared. You don't have to be an expert on the political issues of our time to be a senator or a congressman, that's what your staff, the CBO, and your party are for. Most of politics is knowing how to get what you want passed, passed. I have fairly attuned critical thinking skills, and am pretty adaptable, but not to the degree necessary of a politician. This is where a political science degree and several internships would come in handy.
I definitely need more practice in critical thinking and communicating, and that is why I'm looking to go to a liberal arts school. A school that will challenge me and force me to adapt to new problems and ideas. A school that believes in an interactive classroom rather than a large lecture hall. After I've developed my deep thinking skills maybe then you'll see me either running for office, or criticizing the people already there.
After reading this essay, I am confused. While the images the author presented in “Rigor Redefined” are certainly possible, and numerous stories I have heard back them up, I have not had any problems with the method used in my education. Through my educational journey, I have learned vast amounts of information. Along with this information came character, and along with character came life skills that will prove invaluable in the workforce and in my life as a whole. My conclusion? People need to suck it up and learn.
ReplyDeleteOver the course of my short life, I have discovered that people, generally speaking, are wimps. The world is filled with those who would rather give up than stick it out for the long haul. Confronted with problems of any sort, these people panic and revert to childish behavior, which in this case means capitulation. Why do they do this? Why do so many people choose to deprive themselves of the gift of education? Wagner attributes it to poor teachers. I disagree. In my experience, every teacher I have had has been genuinely concerned about teaching and has gone to great lengths to help us master the information we need to know. At some point, responsibility falls upon the student to pick up the material and attempt to learn it. No matter how good a teacher is, they cannot simply place information in anyone’s head. A student has to be receptive in class in order to learn what is being taught.
Sometimes, however, there are those who pay attention in class but forget about schoolwork completely when at home. When they fail, they attribute it to bad teaching, as before. However, in classes as challenging as Advanced Placement courses, there is simply not enough time in a class period to teach all the information necessary. It is then the student’s responsibility to go home and read the chapter being discussed in order to learn the material. Students must be responsible; blaming the teacher is just the easy way out.
In my case, my schooling has prepared me extensively for the “real world”. When I graduate college, I am confident that I will be able to secure a job and excel at that job. From my studies, I have learned at least parts of all seven of Wagner’s essential skills, and I am sure I can master them all eventually. The reason my education has prepared me so well for my future is that I have put in extra time and effort to ensure my success. By learning masses of information, I now have a huge database from which to draw facts for use in persuasion. From classes like Lang, I have learned how to speak effectively and communicate my ideas more clearly. I feel totally prepared for whatever life throws at me, and it’s all because I took advantage of the opportunities I have been given in school.
There is but one flaw with my plan. As of yet, I have no idea what I want to major in for college, much less what I want my career to become. Because of my zealous approach to academics, I have remained proficient in all major areas of study, and because of this no one subject really stands out to me. I will find it hard to specialize because it will feel like I am giving up all of my other chances to learn. Once I discover what my passion is, however, I’ll be okay with that.
Classes like the ones Wagner observed shouldn’t exist. The responsibility to ensure this falls not with the teachers, but with the students. No matter how “bad” a teacher is, students can always go the extra mile to master the material and succeed in class. The drive to learn, to advance in life, is critical. Without it, there’s no point in even living life. If students took responsibility for their education, there would be no situations like those in “Rigor Redefined”. Wagner’s “seven survival skills” are nice and all, but all anyone really needs is drive. With that, anything else can be accomplished.
Deanna N:
ReplyDelete" In this aspect, the only aspect that matters, school has failed: we learn how to take the derivative of cosine, not how to make ourselves better people. "
Do we not become better people by learning? Learning concepts as difficult as those in Calculus makes us have to care. Caring about learning is a positive step towards being a successful person later in life, because this motivation, once present, will make any type of venture possible. Sure, I will NEVER have to take the antiderivative of 2x+4/x^2+4x again, but by learning it I have developed life skills that will be crucial in the adult world.
Jessie B:
ReplyDelete"Actually, every AP teacher I have at Oakcrest has strived to push students to become not merely successful test takers but also successful people."
I agree. I have to laugh when I hear people complaining about Cervi's obsession with teaching us about World War II and the Holocaust, because that is exactly the type of attitude that will get us nowhere in life. These people simply want to learn what they need for the test and then forget about it all. By teaching us about the atrocities committed during World War II and the heroes that resulted from the effort to end them, Cervi also teaches us about fundamental principles to live by, and that's really the important thing. In the end, it's more important to be good, hard-working people than it is to know about an obscure act from 1823.
Alix L:
ReplyDelete"I don’t believe that the school system is lacking in opportunities to be prepared for the future, it’s the students themselves that lack the attitude or drive to learn what needs to be learned in order to succeed. With that said, success is not necessarily the money someone makes in a big-wig executive position in a huge multi-billion dollar company. Success is the ability to move forward, continue to make progress, and always being able to better yourself. Success is being happy and not feeling like you’ve wasted your time. "
I agree with this completely. Ultimately, the biggest gift we can receive from school is a proper attitude with which to approach life. In ten years, it isn't going to matter if I a five or a one on the Calculus exam. What really matters is what life lessons I learned while in school.
Shirley: I agree with your post, however it leaves me with one question. Why do we all continue to take these AP classes? I guess the only answer is, because of teachers like Bunje and Cervi. However, we could still have them in CP... The individual student really does have a large part in whether they will succeed or not, its not always all about how the teacher teaches.
ReplyDeleteAlix: "I am definitely prepared to BECOME prepared." I love how you brought both the aspect of learn-nothing-cram-everything AP classes and learn-everything-longterm AP classes. There really is HUGE difference! Also, I agreed about how you said a students attitude was a large part of whether AP takes you anywhere...it's the truth!
HannahBanana: You brought up a point that isn't usually thought of, as students we do learn a lot! It's definitely up to the student, whether those skills are used or not. However I disagree about curiosity being a purely innate trait. Teachers as well as parents should install curiosity, bringing out the wonders we were born with. We had to write the "This I Believe" speeches, which made us curious about our beliefs. It is teachers like this that help develop what we already had.
School is a formality. It does not; under any circumstance prepare us for the real world. At least traditional schooling doesn’t. What does school do for us then? It teaches us meaningless crap that we will NEVER use. Ok I’m totally just ranting about math right now, but still. See history, teaches about the past because “if we don’t know our past, how can we better our future.” Very convincing, however, it’s been proven that humans always repeat their mistakes, Hello, genocideS. Science? Pfft, science. I’d approve of languages if they actually gave me a decent grasp of the language. Then comes English. I have always felt that English takes on a lot more then was originally intended. Sure, I’ve leaned what nouns and verbs were, but I’ve also learned a lot about life. It’s taught about effective communication, curiosity and imagination, and accessing and analyzing information. I’m not just saying that because this is English class, but I honestly believe it’s the only class in this building that’s got merit to it. Now I’m sure my teachers have had a big influence on that because I’ve had three of the best, but still.
ReplyDeleteThe other few things companies look for, I’ve learned through extracurriculars. Like theatre has taught critical thinking and problem solving, collaboration and leadership and agility. You never know what’ll happen on stage, adapting, working well, and formulating a quick plan is key. Initiative? Well schools taught me to do what you can and get an A on it, try and succeed, DON”T FAIL, under any circumstance.
So basically I think I got lucky with learning most of these, Rocky, Costal and only half the year in AP Life (Aka Lang) taught me more then every other class since Kindergarten.
To the next question…well I would answer this, however, jobs…jakhwegkjFHNKAGJWr. I’m not ready for life after school, I don’t want bills and taxes and working everyday. It’s daunting. I don’t want to grow up. The whole idea is very unappealing. However, to best answer this. If I were to say, get a summer job (which my mom subsequently suggests once a day) then yes, I’m creative and I’m pretty personable and may be able to fair pretty well. Passed that, well, I’ll cross that bridge when I get there.
So those AP classes? Welcome my dear friends to AP Calculus. Don’t get me wrong, in a one on one setting, the teacher is really nice and is helpful, she teaches. But in a classroom, boy oh boy, she prefers to teach the tile. If the floor signed up for the AP test, well, let me tell you, they’d get like a 10. In fact, if we all sat on the floor we may actually do better. Just a thought… Any who, I mean most AP classes like histories are really helpful in the teacher’s strong point, but is not so great for the subject. Like government focused a lot on current events, US focuses a lot on WWII and genocidal things. See I believe what they have to teach is far more interesting, but the AP test apparently doesn’t care about interest.
After reading “Rigor Redefined” I have to say that I don’t think the schooling I’ve had has quite prepared me for what companies are looking for. Certain classes have helped and brought me further than others but personally I don’t feel as though I would be ready to take on a company job. The description given about the AP English class was off for all the English classes I’ve taken but the description for AP Government sounded familiar. I remember taking AP Government last year and I had difficulty even figuring out what was going on in class at certain points. I’m not sure if that was due to my lack of interest in politics or the fact that I needed much more of an explanation. Either way I pretty much would take my book home when I did not understand something and I would try to decipher it all myself. I’ve noticed differences between my classes throughout my high school years. Some of my AP classes have pushed me into a zone that I’m not comfortable with. One example would be public speaking. I’m not comfortable with it but I know I need it. That’s why I’m thankful for certain classes, the ones that push me to do it. While I hate it at the time and become completely stressed out by it, I am so glad that I am being pushed to do it at times because otherwise things would probably be even worse for me. I’m still not at the point where I can say I’m ready to take on some kind of company but I’m definitely working on it. There are other classes I have that push me to do nothing whatsoever. In these classes teachers just walk in and do what they have to, sometimes with so little enthusiasm that it seems as though they would rather not be there.
ReplyDeleteJessie,
ReplyDelete“I feel that, as Wagner noticed in the classes he sat in on, much of my schooling has been geared toward memorizing facts and passing tests, the kind of tests on which schools reputations depend.”
I agree 100% with this point. Every year has been “get ready for the S-test, get ready for the other S-tests, the GEPA, the HSPA, the SATs.” Schooling is built upon standardized test after standardized test creates little parrots of the information the state deems necessary we know. How is this helping anything but our memorization and guessing skills? It’s certainly not preparing us for life.
JV,
“But you know what? We don’t need these things for thinking critically. We gain critical thinking through trial and error. We gain them through experiencing mistakes so that the next time we’re face in a similar situation, we know what not to do.”
I definitely agree with this. Like how will a long and wordy math problem help my critical thinking? It won’t, it’ll just make my head hurt. It’s not school that gets us ready for life, it’s what happens between the bells and after school at activities that really gives us the skill sets to make it.
KTG,
“The way he describe AP Gov was exact. We were really left on our own in that class. I remember going to class and listening to the teacher's questions and never remembering him actually answering them. To me, he just went from topic to topic.”
So true! Ohhhh Mr. Sera. I mentioned it in my blog, a lot of AP social studies teachers have their forte and they teach that really well, so well that if you bring it up in class you can have them distracted the entire 45 minutes because they love it so much. Problem is, their forte is generally not connected to their particular AP subject so we’re left on our own. It’s definitely frustrating when trying to grasp the material when classes are like this.
I’m still undecided as far as what I want to do as a future career. I’m considering something in the psychology field but nothing is set in stone for me yet. The one thing I do know is that I want to help people somehow. I’m not sure I’m ready to do that yet. I mean yes I would love to start helping now and contributing to the improvement of another person’s life. The only problem is that I don’t believe I can help others until I’ve experienced more of life. I need more life lessons. In school I’ve learned a few life lessons but there are classes that I don’t believe have taught me much about life at all. Equations and formulas, well I don’t really see where I’ll use them in life. I memorize them for tests and whatever else I may need them for but as soon as they vanish behind the screen of a new lesson I forget them. I wish there were some way to apply them to life in general but as far as where I want to go with my life, I don’t really see where their usage could be applied. Maybe I’m missing something, maybe I need to open my mind more but honestly at the moment I don’t see the use in some things.
ReplyDeleteAlix L: “If everyone had more of the view that everyday is an opportunity to expand their knowledge instead of looking at school as a prison of sorts, more kids would be prepared for the real world.”
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with this. I think that many kids just see school as an inconvenience that keeps them from having fun or having a life. In many instances some just focus on the school day ending instead of what is going on in the classroom. If they were more eager to learn and realized all of the doors that these classes could open for them then maybe they would embrace these classes and sometime in the future they would possess the skills they need.
Alex V: “Lang, on the other hand, has taught me much more in the field of life (thanks Bunje!). I think it depends entirely on the teacher and where his or her intentions lie.”
This is definitely true! I think hat some teachers get so caught up in trying to get as much information to us as possible that they forget to explain the life aspect. It becomes so unclear of where exactly certain facts fit into real life. I love the classes that connect to life lessons that we will more likely see in our futures. To me that is more important than any formula or equation I will ever learn.
Sarah L: “However there are other classes, where I do almost nothing. I can guarantee you I learned nothing from Health. Basically, I could be much further now than I am, which is disappointing.”
This is sad because it’s really true. There are certain classes that seem to just waste time that could be used to advance ourselves. I passed health easily and I feel like I learned absolutely nothing from it. I barely even remember the class to be honest. There are some classes that are similar to this and I feel like I could be using my time to focus on other classes that are teaching me vital lessons that I need. I want to learn things that will help me and things that I will be using in the future rather than classes that teach me stuff that I forget in less than a year.
School has prepared me for several things. And those things are tests, tests, and more tests. From an early age, I was aware that most teachers were only there to teach what is necessary to pass a test and then leave it at that. My father was an English teacher, and he frequently reminded me to learn things for myself because my educators would only teach me what they needed to in order for me to pass their course. For that reason, I don’t think that my schooling experience has taught me everything that I would need in order to enter the work force. Instead, I think that just attending school in general – communicating with peers and reacting to certain situations – teach us far more about what we would need in order to be successful. Although there are teachable moments in our courses that can prepare us for various situations, for the most part there is not a practical use to our curriculum.
ReplyDeleteIn spite of this, if I left school right now, I feel like I would be prepared for most careers. I have a lot of interests, and because of this, I find it nearly impossible to narrow down what I want to do in the future. I have several aspirations, but all of these ideas span across majors that are the complete opposite of each other. Online questionnaires do nothing to help me, because they offer suggestions from nuclear engineering to early childhood education. Despite this, I have noticed one similarity amongst my interests. They all include working with groups of people. They require working with different groups, meeting new co workers, and socializing with representatives from other sects. These jobs require an individual to be an outstanding speaker, writer, as well as listener. Although there are some areas that I could use more work in, I know that I can learn those skills easily. School has not taught me how to be a relatable person, or how to work with people from all aspects of life. I learned those skills from experiences, and these experiences rarely occurred inside of controlled classrooms.
However, Wagner’s depictions of some AP classes could not have been more correct. There are the exceptions of course, one of them being AP Lang, but overall his references gave me a sense of déjà vu. I have nothing against Mr. Sera, and I enjoyed his class very much in the end, but there were moments when he would ask us questions and my class would remain silent. Naturally, he would try to provoke our thoughts and get us to think, but I distinctly remember a majority of the class just staring at him waiting for an answer. This year, I have noticed that these occurrences have been eliminated [except for AP Calc] and this is for good reason. I joined AP classes to learn more, to expand my knowledge, and although there are plenty of times where my brain just doesn’t remember a thing, I don’t always wait for a teacher to provide an answer.
I am privileged to have the opportunity to participate in AP classes, but I believe that if we don’t pair these AP courses with lessons on how to navigate through life, none of us will ever be able to successfully become a contributor to society.
Taylorrr!
ReplyDelete'What does school do for us then? It teaches us meaningless crap that we will NEVER use. Ok I’m totally just ranting about math right now, but still.'
Oh Taylor, I lol'd at this. But I also agree with it. There have been countless instances where some kid in math class asks 'What will we ever use this for?' The teacher always replies with something along the lines of engineering or architecture, but I know for a fact that most of my peers are looking for a career in those fields. I understand that some math may be handy, but beyond those limits, I feel as if math is just a way to keep us busy and to pass a few tests.
Jessie!
ReplyDelete'Health jumps to mind immediately. I got a 100 in that class with hardly any effort, though I cannot remember clearly a thing I learned there. Certainly, I developed little if at all in the areas Wagner listed. What really worries me, though, is that kids failed Health.'
Oh jeesh, I have the same worry. I always used to wonder just how some people were even capable of failing that class. I knew that most of these students were unfocused, but I found myself so surprised when I saw most of them just sleeping these class periods away. I know that it is not always my problem to deal with, but whenever I witness students behaving this way, I cannot help but worry about their future.
Miss Coco Peru [ ehem.. Katie ] !
ReplyDelete'I remember in "The Pursuit of Happiness" where he goes into the office looking like a slob and has no shirt on. They ask him, "What would you say if man walked in here with no shirt, and I hired him? What would you say?" And Will Smith says, "He must have had on some really nice pants."
It impressed the man, and he got the job. I'm not saying that the key is to talk your way through everything, but doing that can certainly sometimes seal a deal.'
That is a really good example. and it also applies to the point that I was attempting to make in my own blog. I think it is a very important skill to know how to talk to and relate to people, especially potential employers. Had Will Smith's character, not been a man who knew how to relate to people, he most likely would not have gotten that job. It's scary to think about. And although you may think you are well versed in one aspect of being sociable, there is always more to learn, and a lot more skills that can be implemented.
Manar :
ReplyDelete“I want to raise my children in a way to avoid corruptness, to over think, and to be open minded. I don't want little natural Einsteins, but I want them to WANT to have knowledge.”
Same! If I ever do want children, I would rather than be insightful rather than get good grades. The pressure is just so much for kids to get A’s that they stop learning, and that’s not something we want our future to grow into. What’s the point in succeeded in the institution of school, but fail at what life really brings. And I hate people who boast about their academic achievements which, alone, are fine, but combined with phrases like “I never study” or “I’m just naturally smart.” I don’t think people can be naturally smart and it really irks me when people try to raise their superiority over everyone else by saying they are.
KTG:
“You can't depend on the school and teachers for everything though. You have to earn some street smarts yourself.”
You make a good point! The problem with school is that you can’t learn street smarts in schools—that would totally change the meaning of the entire phrase. If schools taught people how to be street smart, they would utterly fail at it because street smarts are gained through experiences and you can simulate something like a job interview in school. When you talked about the Pursuit of Happiness, Chris (the man Will Smith played…right?) had a unique flair. If everyone was taught on how to be unique, that would be ridiculous because everyone would just copy whatever seemed “unique” and thus making it banal.
Sarah L:
“One of my biggest complaints is how much time is misused. In Lang, chemistry, or recently with the World War II speaker there is not enough time. However there are other classes, where I do almost nothing. I can guarantee you I learned nothing from Health.”
I absolutely hate time restrictions! I agree with you that in some of the more important classes, there is simply not enough time. In Lang, we are always cut short by the afternoon announcements and the best class of my day always feels like the shortest. Sometimes I wish we had Lang labs rather than Calculus lab because for the past two weeks, all we have been during the each period is finishing assignments due during the week. We could easily do that at home. On the other hand, we can’t easily have an intense discussion by ourselves. And yes, health is a waste of time. I learned so much more from fitness by doing cross country than I did by sitting in a desk reading from a textbook “Exercise is very important!”
Reply to Paola:
ReplyDeleteI think we all continue to take these AP classes because the way society portrays the AP student. The AP student is seen as a student who is smart and wants to have the best opportunities in life. And we all recognize that and want to go somewhere with our lives. Also,
People who truly love to learn want to be challenged with everything school can offer so AP classes provide the ‘best learning’ high school can offer. We also want to end up in colleges where people are open-minded, not bums who don’t care about their future, and AP classes prove to colleges that we mean business. And I hope I didn’t give the impression that I think “it’s always how the teacher teaches.” A student has a responsibility to learn and they must act on it by themselves. Many of the most prominent men are self-taught: Abraham Lincoln, James Madison, etc. But not everyone is so driven, thus I think teachers have the responsibility to teach as well as inspire students of all backgrounds, and I think the teachers have lost faith in what teenagers can accomplish, especially those who teach the less motivated classes.
I agree with Wagner 100%. When I was reading his article teachers were literally flashing into my mind. You ask if the school prepares us, but I do not blame the school. I blame the AP Tests, and I blame state tests. I blame the AP Tests because they make their tests so ridiculous that teachers literally have to teach the whole year for the test. Bunje talks often about “Bunje English”, that means there is a whole other curriculum, that does not flow with what were doing now. We are going to get maybe three weeks of a top-notch English class, when we really deserve a full year. However, our teachers can’t give us than because they signed up for this test just as we did. I blame stupid standardized state tests, just as much as AP Tests. From as young as second grade students are given state tests to measure their intelligence. This is ridiculous, what is even more ridiculous is that if a school’s students do bad the state will take away funding from the school. Its all fear, fear of not passing. This fear is what drives students, teachers, and administrates alike to learn and teach the way they do.
ReplyDeleteI am torn between money and happiness. My dream job would be teaching little kids and getting paid a pharmacists salary, my future job will probably be a pharmacist, unless I meet a really rich man (fingers crossed)! I believe that for me, either profession I choose I will succeed in, however, I don’t know how much of that I can credit to my schools. When it comes to pharmacy, the knowledge I will learn in pharmacy school, and the personal jobs skills when it comes to informing people and things of that nature, I feel like I have acquired my self. Teaching on the other hand is different. I know what type of a teacher I want to be from seeing all the teachers I had, good and bad.
I believe that every AP class Wagner mentioned fits the classes I have been in to a t. But it is not the teachers faults. Take a teacher like Mr. Matlack, stay after school with him any day and you’ll see the real teacher he is. He’s the kind of teacher that answers your question with a question until you yourself come up with the right answer. However, that’s not exactly what period 4/5 AP Chemistry is like, it can’t be. There is barely enough time for Matlack to teach us all the material we need to know, let alone take the time for us to figure things out on our own.
So I guess my point is I agree with Wagner, that the high school classes children are exposed to pretty much blow. However, I do not feel it is anyone in the school’s fault. This sounds so anarchy, but I believe the fault lies in government.
Sarah L- I believe education should change you. Facts alone should be able to grab you and force you to see the world differently. History and English should have a human quality. They have to have heart and life
ReplyDeleteI absolutely love the fact that you compared History and English to have human quality and have heart and life. That's only seen in writing withe genuine emotion not just words to get an idea through. My perspective is that it relate to us and actually makes us feel or imagine that event from the writing.
AlexandraV The typical education system is based around test scores from tests that don’t mean a damn thing to anyone except the people who made them. Its all in where your faith lies. The article proves that most Americans put their faith in the botched, political knot we call school. I (one of little faith in anything or one besides God) see clear as crystal that students today are misguided.
I don't like standardized tests, I feel like that they cancel out the aspect that we learn to know, not to pass and please the people that make the test. I too am "one of little faith in anything or one besides God" therefore I don't trust always the pure purpose of others, such as schools because usually there is some sort of favoring or political shadiness involved. If I can't have faith and trust them then how can I trust that they are offering their best and really guiding us the right way..
Lucas S- The world is filled with those who would rather give up than stick it out for the long haul. ........... In my experience, every teacher I have had has been genuinely concerned about teaching and has gone to great lengths to help us master the information we need to know.
I disagree. A whole lot. I don't think people should have to waste precious life time on something that upsets us or stick it out for the long haul simply because it shows we are strong or capable if we don't like it. If I die tomorrow, I will be so angry that my life was wasted on school time that I didn't enjoy. Another point is that "every teacher I have had has been genuinely concerned" that's awesome and that's lucky of you, but we are not all blessed and had that kind of educators. I definitely agree that an individual should want to learn and if knowledge is pursued then it will be delivered, but before high school as little kids, we have to be guided and if we're not then in high-school some students are still looking for that. If knowledge is as easily mastered by the student, which I believe, then we don't need school as it is now. Generalizing that all teachers are good, or the blame is strictly on the student is just not comprehendible to me, or better yet just not believed. I think you speak from your own intelligent, and effective experience.
Shirley
ReplyDelete“This lack of faith and mind-set of 'test-prep' is plaguing our children and as a result, our future, I feel, will be crumbling.”
I agree with you one hundred percent. I hate test- prep. It is a horrible way to measure intelligence, and the ability of a school to teach. I think that we should due away with standardized tests. I feel the government should check schools, just as they do restaurants. Random pop-ins.
Deana
“Education is therefore life itself; not the preparation for life”
Here’s where you and me disagree. We both in my opinion have a
pretty good moral compass, and a pretty good grasp on life. I believe some of this comes from our upbringings. But what about the children who don’t have loving parents to go home to, or parents at all. Education and schools are for more than just teaching they are definitely preparation for life.
Manar
“What? Why? Where? How? are always spinning through my head and that is always annoying to teachers.”
In eighth grade I had an English teacher named Ms. Serbeck, I hated her. In fact I didn’t like any of my English teachers until Ms. Rock, but that’s beside the point. She used to tell out class all tell my class all the time that we “think to much into things” which may be true. However, I don’t understand why teachers see this as a negative quality. We’re thinkers, that’s why were in the classes we’re in.
Most of us on this blog, have been in AP and honor classes our whole life. We are able to do so much more than the average student, academically speaking… However, there are still many of us that have no idea how to behave in a leadership or social role. Whose to blame? Tony Wagner, seems to blame the teachers. While, it is extremely evident when a teacher sucks, qualities he expressed are not totally formed by that bad teacher. Students must learn from their mistakes, and find the strength to study in lieu of playing videogames. It is determination that can make any job accessible.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I do feel prepared. I am prepared. Since I have a job, I have some sort of insight on what my employers look for in interviews as well as resumes…and even in customers. You must be determined in doing what you do better. With this knowledge, I know I would be able to present any company with what they are looking for.
Since I want to be a journalist and broadcaster, I need that determination. My interest in this area, will allow for my passion to consume it. By the way, it was my AP teacher that inspired this interest. I must have been lucky, because a couple of my teachers were amazing. While, only one would go on to be inspirational, they all taught me something. Something that sparked my interest, catalyzed passion, and made me more determined to win the scholar race. Proving, that the blame for the amount of deteriorating corporate ready employees can not be pushed upon the teachers.
Because of what I’ve learned, I would be ready for the work-place. I guess I already am. I love learning, especially about people. This interest would not be there, if it wasn’t for those few teachers that insured my determination. There is no denying bad teachers exist, but to the extreme that Wagner expressed is a bit irrational. Last year, I had the absolute WORST teacher EVER! While, this teacher had a beautiful personality, their teaching style….was quite the opposite. Either way, I had to learn that subject by myself. It took my determination to do well. Which brings in personal values into the controversy. Who really is to blame? If Wagner could see Oakcrest, I think he’d be incredibly surprised. I believe a good amount of the students have those traits he explained. All they need is that one inspirational person, not necessarily a teacher to, in sense, believe in them. As cliché as that may sound, it’s absolutely one-hundred percent true. Innate qualities are only perfected with practice, and teachers seem to be the underlying coaches to these practices, constantly enforcing determination. It is determination that can make any job accessible.
Weekdays have become a routine for most high school students. We all wake up at the same time, go through the same morning routines, walk the same path down the same hallways, sit in the same seat, and look at the same teacher everyday. Going through the same motions day after day becomes quite heartbreaking if we take the time to think about how mundane our lives truly are. The only remotely different thing a student experiences is the lesson from day to day.
ReplyDeleteEvery person has to live up to expectations. Each student lives up to the teacher. Each teacher to the administration. The administration to the board. The board to the state and so on. With everyone trying to please one another, often times the true meaning of teaching is lost in this transition. I have sat in classrooms being the perfect professional student. Always just learning that one lesson and understanding it for the chapter test grade. Most lessons, I am either never taught a practical application or find it hard to relate it to anything outside in the real world.
In a way, it does not surprise me that companies look for people who ask good questions. A good student can take what he/she has learned and put a spin on any information making room for growth. If I had the time, I would come home and research a lot of information we learn in chemistry, but honestly I learn the information for the test and do not know how to apply it to real life. That is not how I imagined learning, but that is how most teachers present the lesson. Without understanding the lesson it becomes impossible to ask questions leaving you completely in the dark. Most teachers are in it for the grades or in AP classes are in it for the scores. I have witnessed first hand teachers that teach like the examples given in the passage. At first it seemed as though he was sardonically portraying teachers, but than I realized how true he really was. It is a shame to say that, but it is true.
If I left school right now, I can’t say I would be extremely prepared, but I feel as though I would make it work. Before taking AP lang, I had never really been challenged to think about my beliefs or asked to read something I personally and attached to in front of the class. The challenges I have had to overcome realizing my flaws in writing have helped me in other areas. Lately I have begun to interact with others in finding out their beliefs instead of just having my own. I have begun answering and coming up with different questions that I have grown and learned from. My fears of oral presentations and expressing my ideas in front of the class have been tucked deep into my back pocket, and my curiosity and wanting to understand and gain knowledge has increased. Before taking lang I did not think I had what it takes to go to college and have to come up with my own ideas instead of reading and simply following the instructions. Any person can just read and imitate, but it takes a true genius to want to learn and come up with their own ideas.
I’ve always learned how to work hard for something and leaving school right now to enter the air force, teach, or (my dream job) become and aeronautical engineer, that would require a lot more skill than I have obtained in my short sixteen year old life. I still have a lot to learn about myself and the world around me. Sure, I could do it if I had to, but there is still a lot more I want to learn before I want to.
The article “Rigor Redefined” expresses the reality of AP classes and the inadequate preparation they give for the real world. Wagner touches upon the points that numerous high schools seem to neglect, the attributes that appear important in several types of work fields are not taught in school. Public speaking, working collectively, and learning well projected discussion do not exist in the curriculum at most schools. I believe completely in what Tony Wagner is saying about AP classes, how mindless and straightforward many of the classes are, very few teachers actually make the students think deeply. The example of the English teacher and Virginia Woolf is the epitome of many classes, even here at the Oak. Extrapolating information and trying to figure out things without notes or books in front of them just does not compute with many high school students, just like in the example where the students rush to their notes to find a straight forward answer. The most amusing thing about this example was that it was in fact an AP English class, a course structured around dissecting and analyzing literature and language. It has become a fault by the school, teachers, and structured curriculum that do not allow students to actually possess the attributes necessary to excel in the various work fields available.
ReplyDeleteNow I am not quite sure what I want to be when I finish College, or even the field I intend on majoring in. Though I have ideas and plans, I don’t want to structure my life before I’ve even lived it. So for now let’s say I want to be a lawyer, for it is one of my possible career choices. I am ready to go off and be a lawyer right now? Obviously not, and not one student in Oakcrest is either. Taking the LSAT I heard is one of the hardest tests out there, and unlike other tests that you can retake, your chances of passing each subsequent time goes down. Also there is the BAR exam that is too mind-boggling hard—but that is beside the point, but to become a lawyer now, just based on my ability to persuade and converse with people correctly would be nearly impossible. I have no practice in the situations that any law firm would consider desirable. I believe schools should incorporate more public speaking and education on how to speak correctly. Because some people have all the talent in the world, but their public speaking and interaction between other people is horrendous—which is regretfully the first thing that a job interviewer sees—they don’t get viewed as a law school graduate, but someone who doesn’t know how to have a conversation with a job interviewer.
As I said before the AP class descriptions for the most part hit the nail on the head. Most AP classes do not incorporate the correct learning, which there are some exceptions but mostly this description is accurate. I believe teachers are asking the wrong questions, at least in the wrong way. By guiding students to an answer will usually create this type of learning, the note-flipping one word answer type of discussions that are reinforced by tedious note taking and failure to stimulate the minds of the students. Overall I believe that the article describes the entire truth about a majority of AP classes and brings up the problem of not teaching enough real world skills that should be altered in schools in the country.
Gwen- While writing my own blog I could not help but often think about Mr. Sera’s class. The fact that I learned absolutely nothing about government, except that it is corrupt could be the reason I am a bit cynical when it comes to learning in AP classes. It is sort of weird how you have the teacher like Mr. Sera, who teaches nothing, the teacher like Mr. Cervi who teaches so many things about life and history and all these other amazing things, but nothing about his own subject, and of course the teacher that teaches solely on the curriculum. I could not agree more that teachers just prepare us for tests and more tests. I often wonder if we are wasting our time just trying to live up to the expectation of a standardize test, but than I realize all of the interesting things we learn from each other throughout the day and I guess we learn when we least expect it.
ReplyDeleteLucas- I disagree with some of the points you made. Yes, some students are lazy, but I believe if the teacher changed the way they taught every couple of lessons it would be an easy way for the student to comprehend. Hearing each fact presented in the same manor can get very boring and typical. Mr. Matlack this year has changed around some teaching styles and yes it takes more class time, but the lessons have become more clear. It takes both the student and teacher to adjust to their surroundings in order to produce a successful lesson.
Kait H- I had to comment on your blog because I was part of it. When I think of the perfect class, it is a challenging class (with other intelligent people in it) that is not focused on a score revolving around one test in the beginning of May. Honestly, the perfect class would be one without grades, but then again no one would ever do the work. I am pretty excited for senior year not worrying about class rank or SATs or anything. It will all be finally paying off when we get our college acceptance letters!
I agree with Wagner and his views. On an educational, curricular based level, school has not taught me any of the skills discussed. The school seems to approve a curriculum based on “teach about rhetorical modes” or “teach government and politics.” But nowhere does the curriculum say things such as “instruct students on how to improve reasoning.” A lot of the time, although there are exceptions, teacher’s don’t teach. They talk and talk and hope that you listen. A real teacher will not just edify the curriculum, they will offer life lessons and truly aid the students, whether it be with verb conjugations or time management. A real teacher goes out of their way to help their students because they truly care. So, in that sense, a few teachers really have given me some of the skills that Wagner discussed.
ReplyDeleteI am still unsure as to what I would like to do when I grow up. But I do have ideas of what kinds of qualities I would like my career to have. I want, of course, a fun job, something that I love and enjoy. I am very social, and so I would like a job that entails being social and meeting a lot of people. In a sense, I would feel work-place ready, but I do not know how ready. EPA has taught me some “professional skills,” but the real learning came from talking to teachers on a personal level. As I mentioned earlier, it is those interactions from the teachers that truly care that have prepared me “for the real world.” As a student, I have learned social skills, and due to my lack of understanding calculus, I have learned to ask many, many questions. According to the article, I have acquired some of the skills that are needed in today’s workplace. The rest, however, I still need to hone.
The examples given by Wagner are very familiar to me. In fact, they sound like my calc class. These examples perfectly demonstrate my point earlier; some teachers don’t teach. However, with the exception of my calc teacher, I have found all of my AP teachers to be very helpful. Each of them have provided me with the skills I have mentioned earlier, as well as answered any question I could possibly conjure up. That is because to me, they aren’t just teachers, they are people. People who truly want me to do well, whether it be in school, on the race course, or in everyday life. Some of my other classes have failed to do so, and it seems kind of sad, pathetic even. It doesn’t matter what level the teacher “teaches,” they should do so with passion and care. After all, it is what they signed themselves up for.
When did asking question become a skill that could help you obtain a job? I am a person who loves to ask question and always felt that it was a sign of incompetency and ignorance. Thus, I regressed my question asking because I felt if I continued to ask I would feel inferior to the ones that don’t ask questions. “Rigor Redefined,” is where I found confidence in my question asking because Wagner talked about how jobs are looking for those kinds of workers that are afraid to ask good questions. The way he explained asking questions made sense and exemplified that it’s a crucial component to have when wanting to obtain a job because he explained how companies believe that when it was in how it furthers your knowledge and your ability for critical thinking. The more you know about how certain things operate or the meaning of certain ideas correlate. The more and more you can make an impact in solving problems. As you can already tell, I really did enjoy Wagner’s take in Rigor Refined and how he exemplified how students may be deprived from what they are learning. I enjoyed his break-down of vital traits that jobs are looking for because it gives us a glimpse into what to expect for the future. Though, Wagner had very valid points but at sometimes I think he was being very objective and a tad bit biased because of the observations he made. All in all through “Rigor Redefined,” I finally realized why most kids cannot hold down a job or make it in college.
ReplyDeleteI definitely have the asking questions skilled master and can total turn it on if I want to charm the companies. I don’t necessarily think this has stemmed from what I have learned in school, I just believe it’s more of a personal discovery. Communication another huge component of aspects those companies pay interest too. Through school I have become a better communicator, debates, intellectually and philosophical discussions, presentations and collaborations on projects have taught me how to communicate a point. I am by far a better, communicator then a writer, so hey, maybe that is an advantage I have. Through the constant presentations in school my communications skills have dramatically increased. Working as a team, when I was younger that was a main priority because you must learn to build from one another. Sophomore year we worked in families that contained differing personalities but together we had to formulate ideas. Yes, it was a hard task but my group overcame it because we all found common ground where we could effectively collaborate. I feel that most of the things that he “claims” companies ask for I have acquired through school.
Shirley: What you wrote is exactly how I feel. And I know what you mean about calculus class! I find myself drifting off and throwing calc to the side to concentrate on other classes. We overload ourselves because we think we have to. The more AP’s, the smarter and the more prepared we will be for the world. Or so we think. This overload has affected me negatively. My grades are slipping and I’m giving up hope that I’m going to make it through with passing grades. I also think my speaking skills need some extreme improvement. I still find it extremely nerve-wracking to stand in the front of a group of people to speak. As you are, I am scared for the future.
ReplyDeleteKTG: I just wanted to say that I think it’s super cool that you take art classes in Philly. You definitely sound like you’re already on your way to a successful career with your art. I know I’ve said this before, but I wish I knew exactly what I wanted to do with the rest of my life at such a young age. You have so much time to learn so much to really hit the top. Anyways, about AP’s, I’d have to agree that Wagner’s description of an AP Government class was to the tee. “I remember going to class and listening to the teacher’s questions and never remembering him actually answering them.” This also describes Ms. Baird’s teaching style. Whenever a question is asked, she just says that we have to move on. I don’t understand how that helps us learn anything.
Stephanie: I completely agree! It seems that all we are taught in school is how to memorize and regurgitate information. There is not really any thought process involved. This was also one of Wagner’s main points that really put me in agreement with him. Also, like you, I think that showing up to some classes is a complete waste of time. When I’m absent, I usually don’t have to make up anything for most classes. I didn’t miss anything! This really shows which classes I really learn in. The others just serve as a prime example for everything Wagner said.
I want to be a nutritionist and honestly, I don’t think my job applies to really why companies need. For my job I need to know things that are written in a text book, I am dealing with the body here. Though I need knowledge when it comes to the biochemistry of our body , I do in a way believe that circumstances I am not fully prepared. As far as trying to communicate and make a difference in others lives, I think that I would be okay. I may not be at my full potential, but I feel that I could at least help people satisfactory. I like communicating, working with people and finding new ways to do things. I feel I would be a good prompt for questions concerning someone’s needs. Therefore, I feel I am adequate enough to venture off onward to my career.
ReplyDeleteAP classes and what we do in them, Wagner expresses his views on each class and the way he portrayed most is pretty appalling. I totally agree with how he portrayed AP government, honestly not to sound harsh but if I was lucky I maybe can remember 5 things from that class. Not that it was a bad class or anything , it just didn’t prompt us to explore all required was knowing the basic definition and when that failed we were given the tools. Too much concern on passing the test then actually teaching us the tools we need for life. Though he continues to rant through his portrayals about how AP classes our handled , he is most definitely incorrect about AP Lang and also though he doesn’t mention anything about AP history, I have learned so much through that class. AP Lang, is the biggest contributor to me enhancing my communication skills. We do a blog every week, we give speeches on beliefs we follow, declamations and we write all the time. Through AP Lang though many might concur I think we have found ourselves in different ways. I feel for me it has made me more passionate because Bunje doesn’t accept and I don’t know, she wants us to think and in the long run this is what is going to help us. AP history is different is that Cervi, does everything in his power to express history but always adding a modern twist. I know, so much about history from that class but I also have learned life lessons. He also asks us why and prompts questions to us because he wants us to understand what is going on. If we understand what’s going on, then maybe we can impact the world. Both classes I will never forget because I feel they have been essential assets that will help me to excel in college but also in life.
Gwen:
ReplyDelete"I have several aspirations, but all of these ideas span across majors that are the complete opposite of each other."
I feel the same way sometimes! There are so many different things I want to do. First I want to be in politics, then I want to be a journalist working over seas, then I want to be a psychologist. The good thing is we still have plenty of time to decide, and most people in college end up changing their minds anyway.
Sarah L- I totally agree and love your reference to Cervi's class. He gives such a different perspective on history. He isn't someone to say "History is just cut and dry," he always makes it personal and relatable. I love history because of how he teaches it. He makes us appreciate the people that have fought to make our country possible and add to our history. You are 100 percent right, no 5 is worth the perspectives and particular lessons he has provided for us.
ReplyDeleteTaylor P:
ReplyDeleteI think when history classes are taught right they can develop a lot of critical thinking skills. If you take the time to listen to Cervi's lectures, and be engaged in what he's talking about, and think about and answer his questions, you'll learn a lot about problem solving and thinking. Every major event in history happened for a reason, it's our job to see past the text book and think about the why. Not to mention most of what he's teaching still effects us today.
Paola- I totally agree with you about Wagner seeing Oakcrest. I feel we excell at all the skills he acquires for someone wanting a job. He just looked in the wrong place. Thats why I believe that his opinion was so biased and in a way we should take it into consideration that is was his point but it doesnt define Oakcrest.
ReplyDeleteDylan: I loved yoru lawyer example, it really helped bring your views into reality. Overall, I agree with your views and I respect them. :)
ReplyDeleteKels: I always love your blogs, they are so inspirational to me. Wht you wrote was waaay deeper than mine, but I feel as though we have a similar view and feeling behind our writing. I hope to improve my writing and sound as smart and confident in my writing as you do!
JV: I love how you write your blogs too. They are heartfelt and I can see that. You are very honest, like with your fashion career example and how you were intimidated in AP Gov last year. I admire that!
To be honest, I don't feel like my schooling thus far as prepared me to shine these qualities that the different companies were looking for. However, I don't think that I have to know it all right now. I understand that companies look for certain things, especially the ones in the article (those 7 characteristics weren't surprising to me), but I disagree with Wagner because I believe that I still have time to learn; everyone does. High school especially, as well as earlier grades, introduces and dives deeper into creativity, simply by the classes that are given, and communication by the different variety of students that are combined in different classes. Sure, we're not shining communication and creativity just yet, but it isn't like we're all sure of what we want to do. We have so much to learn, and Wagner seems to think that we need to know everything now or never.
ReplyDeleteI want to be a fashion magazine publicist. To become one, I need a whole new level of creativity and communication and everything else that Wagner describes throughout his article. If I left school right now, I wouldn't be prepared whatsoever. Because fashion isn't in math, science, english or history alone, no class I've taken could have prepared me for each quality. Sure, in each class I'm learning more and more but, compared to the fashion industry, too slowly. For such a specific job, I'd need more schooling - college - that focuses on that major for a little. For a sort of "call to action" I'd say I'd definitely have to go to college. I know that after four short years of college, wherever I may go, I'll be prepared. When I say prepared, I mean as ready as anyone could be when just entering a new job. I don't think companies look for the next CEO or President at the first interview, especially with a 22 year-old. Nonetheless, I'd be as ready as I could be after college, but not now.
I really dislike Wagner's conclusion with the AP courses. I feel that what he saw happens sometimes, as I remember it happened a few times in Government last year, but it's not the average day. AP students have more of conversations as lessons, at least the AP classes that I'm in. I hate that he uses a lower leveled Algebra 2 class as the example to beat out the APs because any math is so much different than English, which I don't think could be subsituted into his example and that alone leads me to believe he's sort of against AP. In Lang, I catch myself with blank stares sometimes, but for the most part we're all jumping into the conversation. We don't scramble through our notes to find answers, we scramble through our minds. History is the same way - we all talk about the lesson rather than reading from a book or being told the answers. Wagner sat in the wrong classes to use in his example, because not all AP classes are like the ones he described.
Stephen W- You actually made me realize that maybe AP gov. did in a way make us think outside the box. To me I guess politics is pretty cut and dry , so maybe I wasnt really allowing for it to sink in. I feel Sera did challenge us, he always asked question after question that was annoying but in the long run very benefical. He also would never let you know if you were right, which was also very annoying but in a way i guess it made you passionate behind your answer. Though at sometimes I felt the class was heavily focused on passing the exam, it was a challenge. I am glad that you had a positive outcome from AP gov and I can totally tell from History class. Anything about politics you know everything about.
ReplyDeleteStephanie - I could so see you as a nurse one day. Anyway, your blog reminded me of what Cervi said today or yesterday, my lack of memorization shows here, that throughout high school and college, we're basically learning on our own. I'm not a big fan of it, but I think that will help a lot with what you have to learn. And I totally agree with the fact that AP Lang is opposite of the passage (I don't take chemistry so I wouldn't know) and because of that, I really dislike the whole article and Wagner.
ReplyDeleteAlix L
ReplyDeleteI really like AP Government! I always felt like I was engaged and constantly thinking and problem solving. I think if more people had a better attitude about the class (and I'm not directing this at you) it would have been more interactive.
Hannah - I think you'd be okay too, if you had to go into a work-place today. The high level of involvment you have in different activies is the reason for that, at least I think so. As you explained, what you learned hasn't just come from school but from the different sports and things you do, including managing your time. I didn't think, until after reading your blog, about the fact that school alone can't teach these qualities to students and teens but the different opportunities that we're faced with is what helps us learn all of the different things that the companies Wagner interviewed look for.
ReplyDeleteSchool has not prepared me for what these companies appear to be looking for. Although school has taught me some skills important to companies, such as collaboration and communication, school, I don’t think, has fully prepared me for the skills that companies seek. Then again, many of the traits that companies seek are highly difficult to teach because many of them are traits that people simply have or don’t have. Students are either naturally curious or not curious at all, and this being this case, how are teachers supposed to teach a student to be curious or imaginative?
ReplyDeleteTeachers are supposed to teach their subject matter, and inherently, this is what teachers teach. Students indirectly learn the extra skills through the process of performing different assignments for different classes. We can learn how to think critically and analyze information, for example, when we solve difficult open-ended problems in math. We learn collaboration and communication when we work in groups and during English class. We learn to be curious while engaged in a subject we are interested in. We learn about imagination during assignments where we write or present a project creatively. We learn about taking the initiative as we learn how to balance the work of different classes.
School has so poorly prepared me with the skills that companies look for that I am unprepared regardless of its teachings. I am unprepared for companies and for my future job as a microbiologist. If I were to leave school right now and be thrown into the work of a microbiologist, I would have no idea what to do. I would be lost. First of all, I have not a clue any useful knowledge for microbiology, given that my biology knowledge only goes as far as a year AP Biology in high school. I wouldn’t know what to do. With an opportunity to learn, however, I feel that I would become among the best microbiologists. Although school has not prepared me with the skills important for companies, it has taught me motivation, and with this motivation, I can learn anything. If given the chance, my drive to succeed alone would prepare me to be a microbiologist.
Because I am motivated, I take AP classes. My AP classes, however, are not well represented by Wagner’s references to AP classes. According to him, AP teachers spoon-feed information to teachers and AP students know nothing. In other words, he says that AP classes offer nothing more than the mindless absorption of academic content. Wagner is wrong—at least in the realm of Oakcrest High School. At Oakcrest, AP teachers stimulate the minds of students and teach life lessons along with academic content. They encourage questions, group work, and the sharing of thoughts. Often, an AP teacher would ask for each student’s opinion on a certain subject. In my AP classes, I learn not only how to score a five on the AP test, but also how to think for life.
After reading through Tony Wagner’s article, “Rigor Redefined,” I agree with “The Schooling Students Need” but disagree with “The Schooling Students Get.” The “seven survival skills” Wagner states that students must have to succeed in the workplace are exactly right; students need to be critical thinkers, leaders, and effective communicators if they want to flourish in the “real world.” I concur with this statement because these types of skills are needed to apply school-lessons to unique problems we face in our communities. If it weren’t for the basic principles taught in school every day, former students would not adapt well at the office. However, I disagree with Wagner’s thoughts on the schooling students get. After reading through the situations he experienced in AP Government, AP Chemistry, and AP English classes, I was shocked. Since the AP classes that I have taken at Oakcrest have been well structured and interactive, I assumed they were that way throughout the country. It’s hard to believe that AP teachers, in schools with excellent reputations, teach (if that’s what they call it) this way. Examples such as these make me question the ability of a standardize test, or any test, to actually evaluate knowledge.
ReplyDeleteIndirectly, my schooling has definitely prepared me for the future. Even though I am not learning how to write a resume or how to properly be interviewed, I am learning other skills such as writing effectively and public speaking that will help me later in life. After college, I want to pursue a career in the medical field. Although I have not taken any anatomy or genetics classes, I feel as though other aspects of high school have prepared me for my future endeavors. Like doctors and nurses, I have to communicate with a variety of people whom I like and dislike, continue working, even at home, in order to stay on top of everything, and apply basic concepts to different situations in order to solve problems. A medical professional’s problems are obviously more life threatening than that of a student, but the skill of critical thinking is the same.
As I stated before, the AP classes Wagner described sound nothing like those offered at the Oak. First of all, the AP teachers that I have been exposed to do not take “I don’t know” as an answer. If a mixture I concocted in Chemistry started to smoke, I highly doubt that Mr. Matlack wouldn’t be at my lab table right away helping my lab partner and I fix the problem. However, Mr. Matlack also wouldn’t write important lab procedures on the chalkboard, and gives a lab safety quiz before all labs to ensure that a situation such as this does not arise. Furthermore, Ms. Bunje would NEVER accept a class full of slouching AP students who do not participate in discussions. It seems as though AP teachers in other schools have given up on their students learning independently, so they spell everything out for them in black and white. How are the “seven survival skills” being mastered with lesson similar to these?
Shirley: I disagree with your statement that all high school classes are “jokes” because I have learned so much in my two and a half years at Oakcrest. Not all of this knowledge comes solely from academic courses, but from interacting with different people and learning how to adapt to difficult situations. I have been exposed to so many different types of personalities and cultures that it is hard not to learn something new, positive or negative, every day. I am sorry to hear that you feel as though you are getting nothing out of your high school experience, and do not believe you are prepared to enter the workforce.
ReplyDeleteStephanie: I’m also interested in becoming a nurse, and I agree that school and athletics have equally taught me everything I will need to know. Swimming has taught me discipline, which I’m sure karate has taught you as well. These lessons are sometimes more valuable than academic lessons because they develop character traits that correlate to success in the workplace. I also agree that a few AP classes are worth taking, it all depends on the teacher and their expectations of the class.
Sarah: I agree with you that the most important lessons we learn in school will not aid us on AP tests, but help us to appreciate humanity at another level, and that is what education should be about. I hate that everything we do in life relies on how we score on a test. Standardized tests cannot measure intellect or original thoughts. I hate how so much pressure is put on memorization of information we will never use again.
Manar aka Creep - I think you're way too hard on yourself. I know this is an opportunity to reflect on the blog question, but the fact that you don't consider yourself an AP student stuns me. You're just as smart as any of us, otherwise you would have been gladly told to step down. I commend you for taking an AP class after "failing" as you say, though I find it hard to believe you could fail. You're silly. Believe in yourself, ya creep!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIs school getting me ready for the “real world”? As I was reading “Rigor Refined”, I did see some resemblance to some of my classes. It is just a constant challenge to memorize information, vomit it back, forget it, and repeat. To be honest, I miss learning. I miss being challenged. I miss thinking. Companies and CEO executives, nowadays, want thinkers. They want people that are multi-dimensional, go with the flow, and think outside of the box. Vomiters are a thing of the past. At the moment, I do not feel that school is training me to go out into the world, and work in such places. Honestly, I have probably had 4 classes, out of 22, in my 3 years of schooling where I have felt that I was learning something.
ReplyDeleteI like discussions and presentation (I LOVED THE “THIS I BELIEVE PROJECT!:) ) I like being given the chance to grow through thought. On that note, I would like to thank the teachers that have allowed me to think (you know who you are). Most of the “learning” we do in school involves “plug and chug”. I am bored of doing the same thing over and over again, not knowing why (Darn you Pre-Calc). I want my “whys” to be answered with something a little deeper than “because”. Is that asking too much? I don’t think so.
Ever since I was little I have wanted to pursue a career in Medicine (I know… how Asian of me). The medical field, and anything science related, is constantly evolving and in order to succeed you must evolve with it. However with the lessons taught to us in most of our classes, I do not feel like I am evolving. I am stuck in one intellectual-stunted level, not rising nor sinking. If I were to leave right now and try my hand at the medical field, I would return a failure. That is the bottom line. I used to have an imagination. Used to be able to be innovative and creative. But our school system has beaten it out of me. I for one am very angry that we are constantly being forced to become boring gray blobs with out thoughts. I want to things to be explained. I want to not feel embarrassed to ask me Math teacher why. I want to grow intellectually.
I must admit that Warner was a tad bit overdramatic. You can not not participate in one of the Honors/AP English classes and get away with it. That is utterly ridiculous. However his descriptions of the other classes seemed slightly more realistic. Wagner’s description of the Math Classes especially hit home. I do not think I have ever had a Math class, where I have actually was given the chance to think ( except for the beginning of this year) Well you know what? I am tired of there only being one way to get one right answer.
We live in a world that is constantly changing, and I have come to realize that there is no one right answer in life. We have to grow, think, and learn. Not sponge up info that we will only forget in a week. I am tired of learning like a vegetable.
So Math you can kiss my butt.
I completely agree with Tony Wagner’s work Rigor Redefined. His assessment of our nations crumbling education system is spot on with what I am experiencing in school. Most AP classes are growing in size, but decreasing in quality of education, AP history is a good example. Is it just me or do they let anyone and everyone who applies in? I’m not attacking any of the students in the class, just saying that AP means Advanced Placement! Not general! The word AP does not mean what it used to, students go into these classes way over their heads, which make the classes bigger, which intern lowers the quality of the education we receive. Along with AP, most other classes seem to be dwindling in quality of teaching. Teachers no longer care about their classes, they become more about handing out work then one on one teaching. They let the book to the work for them, more and more kids are forced to rely on themselves to learn the lesson rather than have the teacher actually teach it to them. The results of this are kids who are uneducated, unmotivated, and unprepared for college and the workforce. I do not feel as though my schooling has prepared me for what companies are looking for, but I do feel like I am better prepared than most, only because I have learned a lot on my own, and not depended on school to help me in this important aspect of education.
ReplyDeleteGrowing up I could never see myself being a teacher. Modest pay, long hours, and dealing with students all day were all things I was not fond of. But lately I have seriously considered the life of a teacher. Molding the minds of the youth of America, summers off, but most of all leaving that imprint on a student I know will last their entire life. Going to school in a time where teachers are noticeably becoming worse at their jobs gives me the boost to make a change, do something about the problem. Maybe be the small spark that ignites a rebirth in higher education. If I left school this very moment, I know I would not be work place material. I have not yet acquired the drive, the lust, and the responsibility to enter the workforce. My education must continue in order for me to become a productive citizen. Along with continuing my education I must have an increase in quality, for it to have any outstanding effects that carry on with me into adulthood.
Comment 1:
ReplyDeleteTo Lauren who commented on Shirely:
I have to agree with you Lauren Day, sometime we learn more from each other than we learn from our classes. By talking and communicating with the people in our classes, I feel more intelligent and deep. I learn to not only view the situation from my own perspective but to see it from their eyes to. That lesson is more valuable than trigonometric functions will ever be.
Comment 2
ReplyDeleteTo Jon:
I know what you mean about the “higher numbers, lower quality” issue. AP is no joke; it’s a commitment and a very important one if you ask me. I think it’s very admirable of you to considering becoming a teacher in hopes of improving our educational system. Perhaps you will be that difference. The difference in a student’s, or should I say students’, life. You go Jon Williams.
(PART 1)
ReplyDeleteIt’s truly sad how the main intentions of institutionalizing have been completely polluted by modern procedures. Education is supposed to prepare you for the real world, to supply the student with the attributes of a successful workman. Education in the 21st century, or at least education in Oakcrest High School, doesn’t exactly fit that picture perfect description. The tests, quizzes, and multiple projects may build up our GPA, but I don’t really believe they build up our character criteria. Nonetheless, I’d say the experience itself of going to school for nearly thirteen years has prepped me for the future. Accumulating all of the responsibility and stress from AP courses, I am confident in saying that I am suitable in getting a job. Even daily chatter with peers strengthens my communication skills. However, this Calculus worksheet and that Chemistry test aren’t going to help me get a job. I’ll probably forget the material the very next day anyways. I got most of these survival skills on my own time; school probably prepared me by a slim 30 percent.
It’s simply up to the teacher’s performance, in my personal opinion. If a teacher chooses to implement these seven survival skills into their class, the student will undoubtedly be better prepared. Other teachers, however, strictly go by the book and concentrate more on the grades then the goodwill of their students. This is partially the reason why I am more successful in AP Lang than AP Calculus. No offense to Mrs. Baird, but her method of teaching could not be any more different than Bunje’s. While Mrs. Baird writes countless amounts of problems on the board and expects us to know this gibberish, Bunje incorporates the necessities to achieving a five on the AP exam, while also continuously teaching us life lessons through interesting philosophy discussions. Which would best help me attain a stable career: an integration problem, or declamations? The answer is pretty obvious.
As far-fetched as it seems, I truly aspire to become an actress. Why would an actress need to take all of these AP courses? I am asked this question all of the time, to tell you the truth. It’s because I’m not lazy. I take these AP courses in order to be fully-prepared for my unpredictable future. Unfortunately for myself, not all of these courses provide me with the skills I need to succeed (you know who you are…Calculus). I know I have amazing communications skills; there is no doubt in my mind. Yet, I am definitely aware that I lack in critical thinking and agility. And in the crucial business of entertainment, an actress needs these survival skills as much as a lawyer.
(PART 2)
ReplyDeleteI may have already obtained most of these survival skills, and I may be floating on the lake of success, but what about the rest of the students sinking under the failures of our educational system? Is it their fault they are drowning? Most teachers probably aren’t aware of these modern day requirements of getting a job. If they were finally aware, maybe lesson plans would focus more on raising a student’s chances of succeeding rather than raising their grade point average. Re-defining rigor, as Wagner mentions, is the key to proving to the world that America is capable of a creative and opportunistic educational system.
If I can recall correctly, I consistently nodded my head as Wagner impeccably described the typical AP classes. The exact descriptions didn’t fit the exact class, but it reminded me of previous classes. For instance, the description of his observed AP English class most reminded me of my AP Calculus class. The teacher, not emotionally attached to her students in any way, sputters out terse questions, and a few hands begin to slightly raise. The rest of the class is either zoned out or sleeping. Now, my AP English class is actually meaningful, for we treat each other as a family. Our communication is incredible. When I think back to today and how incredibly awesome our speeches were, it is simply amazing how far period 9/10 has come, and I am so proud of us. I’m not worried for us. For the rest of the rest of the school, and the rest of the country, for that matter, I am scared out of my mind. I really do not want to witness a generation full of potential go to waste.
It's my own fault. I've come to the conclusion. It's easiest to point the blame to anyone other than myself, which I frequently find myself doing, but ultimately, it's my drive that leaves me faltering. I'm the student that needs the extra push, and when I don't get it, it's my own responsibility that I failed to acknowledge.
ReplyDeleteI get the most out of the class with the teachers who show the most effort in helping me succeed. I should get the most out of a class as I can, but without the push, my drive slowly diminishes. It's my fault.
As for Wagner's opinion on AP classes and their functions, he's making generalizations, that in some cases can be very insulting to the teachers. As everyone has made clear, Ms. Bunje and Mr. Matlack have, in my opinion, the student's best interest at heart. Though I may not be keeping up in all of my classes, these two teachers have done their very best they can to help me succeed, which is why I have the utmost respect for both of them. Wagner's statements weren't incorrect, because many classes are indeed, exactly as he described. He's making a generalization though, because not all teachers just teach because they have to. After AP tests, in these two classes I'll still be doing work. This is because the teachers aren't worried about testing as much as they are teaching students about things applicable to life.
Though I've noticed this, I am not prepared for the real world. But once again, this is no one's fault other than my own. I've let my fear come in the way of what I truly want to do,my passion,m and now I'm left to writhe within the midst of my confusion. I'm lost. I have no idea what I want to do, where I want to go to school, or anything that I should have at least an idea of. Therefore, if I left school right now, I'd have absolutely nowhere to turn. I don't think that this correlates with school at all though. The problem lies within me.
Comment 3:
ReplyDeleteSimon, I agree that the skills that these companies want can not be learned. You either know it or you don’t. However, these important qualities can be goaded by teachers. Not only people are as self-motivating as you are. Some people need to be inspired. I believe that teacher are not only supposed to teach, but are supposed to be a Muse and inspire students to better themselves. Perhaps that belief is idealistic. Perhaps I am setting impossibly high standards. Nonetheless, it is what I believe.
I absolutely agree with just about everything Wagner discussed in his article. Like him, I feel that an emphasis on communication and critical thinking skills is severely lacking in the modern educational system. I feel like everything I've learned thus far, sans most of Bunje's and Costal's and Sera's classes, have dealt solely with the absorption and memorization of simple facts, with the only real “critical thinking” coming in the very short-sighted application of these facts in say, an essay or a long math problem. I'm actually pretty glad to see that company CEOs value problem solving, critical thinking and communications abilities more than how well we know the derivatives of our trigonometric functions, because if that did happen to be the basis of the workforce selection processes, I'd probably be better off building myself a hut in the mountains and hunting goat for the rest of my life than have it spent painstakingly doing all the boring meaningless stuff I already do in school. In fact, I want to do those things Wagner mentioned. I want to have my value based on how well I can communicate, how well I can function as part of a group, and how well I can apply what I know, not merely what I know, because in theory, anyone(with a healthy brain) can know anything, but it takes a considerable amount of mental discipline and intellectual understanding to actually apply what you know. Also, I want this to be of more value not merely for its benefits in the workplace, but because I want to eventually use these intellectual guidelines as the basis for the group of people that I want to surround myself with(so hopefully by surrounding myself with those equal to me in my job level, I will be surrounding myself with those equal to me on an intellectual level as well.).
ReplyDeleteAs for the other six or so questions on Bunje's list:
ReplyDeleteI don't feel like my schooling has adequately prepared me for what these companies seem to want in their highest level employees. I feel like the modern educational system, along with the changing trends in parenting that I've noticed from the last 100 years or so until now, have combined to create an environment that's just to easy for children to succeed in. Children need to be challenged from day one, not surrounded by parents that give them everything and teachers that just, well, teach. Teachers, and school systems in general, need to be able to point out flaws in their students, whether that be personality-related(why Bunje picks on Lucas all the time), or academic. And these personality-related flaws especially, whether that be a lack of identity, or lack of communication skills, or lack of emotion and drive and the ability to be intellectually stimulated, have been severely neglected by the majority of teachers and parents alike, or at least that's what I've seen.
As for my “job pursuits,” I feel like if I left school right now, barring any age limits or anything else, I would be somewhat prepared for the work-place if I were to dive right into it. When Ms. Bunje wrote if we would be “prepared for what they want,” I didn't really get what she meant by “they,” whether she was talking about the general workplace or my specific potential career choices. But in both cases, the answer would still be yes. In the general workplace, I can talk to another person like I'm actually talking to another person and not typing into a search engine or on a phone, I can solve problems, and I can lift heavy stuff. For myself specifically, I want to be a psychologist, and I feel like, right now, I'd make a pretty decent psychologist. I can talk to another person like I'm actually talking to another person(I already mentioned that), I like talking to people, and I'm pretty darn good at not making people want to kill themselves (at least when I'm not just trying to be funny or insulting like I might occasionally be to, say, Lucas.....and Sarah C....and Simon.....and Jourdan......and Deanna......and Chrissy......and Maryam….and Robert.....and Alex V....and Dylan......and Justin....and Gwe-you know what, screw it).
As for the AP classes, I think that for the most part, my AP classes are full of enriching, engaging people that actually do have something to contribute, most of the time. I think that the situations in the AP classes Wagner mentions do occur often however, and are definitely a sign of the lack of strong intellectualism amongst some AP students, but I still feel that AP kids in general are more mentally fit for the world and are in AP classes because they are intellectually stimulating people, for the most part.........Lucas............and Sarah C......and.....you know what, I think I'll just stop there.
Alex V.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that AP classes “tend to be nothing but fact frenzies focused on frustrating students,” and sadly there isn't much that can be done about it either. AP classes are meant to prepare us for the AP exam and that's just about it. It's really only up to the teacher on how much of the life-pertinent information they can inject into their teaching plans. Hopefully Bunje English at the end of the year will actually give us something we can use outside of the AP exam and doesn't have to do with how much we can analyze and write in how little time.
JV
“I think it’s more of the process of actually being in school and learning how to handle all the stresses that it provides that help us grow into people who think on their toes.”
I'm beginning to think more and more along those lines each day, that all the crap that comes with school is more of a lesson than what we actually read in class. Those stresses force us to adapt and overcome them in such a manner that is far more relevant to our future lives than just about anything we can get from studying for an AP exam.
Paola
I agree that students need to learn from their mistakes and strengthen themselves if they are ever to develop into the fully-functioning intellectuals they can be. To be honest, I think that bad teachers, the worst teachers, and even the worst parents, are those that shelter their children too much and don't allow them to fix themselves when they need it. In these cases, over-sheltering can result in the same degradation of a student's mental abilities and confidence as neglect and abandonment.
Deanna N.
ReplyDelete"I would go a step further though; companies are not the most important thing in life. If school does not prepare you to be a perfect replacement and to fit neatly into a tidy slot in society, big deal."
As blunt as this statement may be, I totally agree, as well with the rest of your blog! School should prepare you for decent and memorable life lessons, and if you don't get that company job, well big deal. I feel as though the word "company" just fits into the never-ending robotic world society has made. First, we go to school. Next, we go to the company and work. Finally, we work until we die. I feel like it's such a cliche formality. I completely loathe it! Like Mrs. Rock's inspirational motto - "Whateva whateva I do whut i want!" By the way, your career aspiration sounds amazing! I am kind of interested in foreign relations, but I know acting will always have my heart. Your passion and ingegrity will definitely allow you to succeed. You don't need AP Calculus for that kind of self-taught charisma!
Brynne - "Sophomore year we worked in families that contained differing personalities but together we had to formulate ideas. Yes, it was a hard task but my group overcame it because we all found common ground where we could effectively collaborate."
ReplyDeleteOh! I forgot about families! Yeah, that was really awesome! Group work always teaches you so many lessons. If you're in a good group, it's cool to share ideas and learn to work together. If you have the unfortunate luck of being in a group that puts all the work on you, you basically get a taste of the real world when it comes to depending on yourself even if it's not fair at all.
Alix - "When I wake up in the morning, even when I’m exhausted from staying up until 2 am the night before, I still have a sense of “Today is going to be a good day” merely because I know that I will learn SOMETHING"
YOU RULE. LEARNING IS POWER! Seriously! Like I said in my blog, we shouldn't depend so much on the teachers, but more on our own skills.
Chrissy - "It’s truly sad how the main intentions of institutionalizing have been completely polluted by modern procedures. Education is supposed to prepare you for the real world, to supply the student with the attributes of a successful workman. Education in the 21st century, or at least education in Oakcrest High School, doesn’t exactly fit that picture perfect description. The tests, quizzes, and multiple projects may build up our GPA"
SUCH a good intro! Really enjoy your writing, chicky! I really like what you wrote when explaining your reasons for taking AP classes. I feel the same exact way. Acting and drawing are very unpredictable, and when I go to college I'm taking a double major with teaching because the world is soooo messed up right, and it's always good to have a back up plan. Plus, learning! hahaha
Alexandra V:
ReplyDelete“Education is like a 500 dollar bill. Due to some sort of magic practiced by the masses, writing a 500 on a piece of paper makes it incredibly valuable, while in some sort of primitive wilderness that piece of paper only has value as kindling.”
I like how you compare the learned things we have in school to what would matter in primitive wilderness. Schools should start teaching more involved real-life skills that would actually mean something outside of school grounds. When we leave school grounds, all the other necessary attributes such as speaking and conversing with people become the most important thing, and without public skills it is hard to be recognized for any job in the future.
Taylor:
You make many convincing arguments about the very subjects we learn in school are basically inadequate for the challenged of the real world. I never really thought about each class individually before and assessed its usefulness (except math of course because math hasn’t been useful since 8th grade). Though I agree that many of the subjects we will never use on a certain level, but in order to look at the grander schemes of things—we must understand that that advanced calculus is used to build buildings and bridges—used in ways that are only applied in certain fields.
Paola:
I can see where you’re coming from when you comment on how students are to blame just like the teachers are. Though you make a convincing argument, it can only pertain to those who have learned how to change. It is up to the teacher to educate the students on how to ask the right questions, speak better, and work collectively. If a teach is not there to guide them, then how is change possible—based solely if a teacher educates their students in a certain way.
Kristen D.-
ReplyDelete"It's my own fault. I've come to the conclusion. It's easiest to point the blame to anyone other than myself, which I frequently find myself doing, but ultimately, it's my drive that leaves me faltering"
Hmmm...I never thought about it in that aspect, but now that you mention it, maybe I've been denying it all along. Maybe I am to blame, as well. You're right: Wagner was a little critical on hard working teachers. And you couldn't have said it better when stating that Mr. Matlack and Bunje have the student's best interest at heart. Like Wagner, however, I chose the easy way and blame America's educational system. It is screwed up, no doubt, but I guess it's partially the student's fault. Shouldn't they be somewhat prepared for getting a job? We're almost adults; we cannot rely on school and our teachers to prepare us for life.
Shirley: I agree with almost everything you said. And honestly, I'll admit that I'm not one of those three students that pay attention. I'm the socializing girl in the back of the room, and it is, indeed, a joke. I don't however, foresee a fall in humanity. There are so many people with drive that aren't like me, that aren't the socializing students in the back.
ReplyDeleteKelsey: I really liked your opening. Everything you said in it hit the nail on the head, and I think that that is what also constitutes for the lack of drive within people. The routine becomes boring and it is there where I lose part of my interest. The stresses seem to pile above my head the further I go.
Alix: I respect and love your optimism. I think that I get wrapped up in the stress of work, which makes me dread getting up every morning to go to school. What I overlook though is that I'm still learning and that it's beneficial to me. I'm so glad to hear that SOMEONE still appreciates that and is optimistic, and I wish I was that someone.
Brynne
ReplyDelete“He also asks us why and prompts questions to us because he wants us to understand what is going on. If we understand what’s going on, then maybe we can impact the world.” You are so right about Cervi. Because of him, we are aware of similarities between today’s issues and yesterday’s issues. We understand the concepts of American government and are able to apply them to issues today, such as the healthcare issue. I agree that AP History and AP Lang are totally different from Wagner’s description of AP classes. Like you said, both of these classes, in contrary to Wagner’s AP classes, prepare us for life.
Dylan
Given our experiences with AP classes, I am surprised to find that you agree with Wagner. To be honest, I don’t think that you know what the majority of AP classes are like. You, like most of us, have only taken AP classes here at the Oak, and therefore, are only able to offer opinions about the AP classes here. I don’t think you have the ethos to comment on AP classes across the world because I doubt you have done the proper research.
“The note-flipping one word answer type of discussions that are reinforced by tedious note taking and failure to stimulate the minds of the students.” To refute this statement, I offer you classes such as Honors English II, AP Government, and most certainly, AP Lang.
Roosa
I feel that your post was very…conflicting. I understand that you dislike math, but I don’t really understand any of your claims against math. You say, “I want my ‘whys’ to be answered with something a little deeper than ‘because’” Well, I can confidently say that QG is happy to explain the why. Plus, you know me, I always aim to figure out the “why,” and if I can do it you can do it. I feel that you are stopping yourself from learning the “why”—not school. You refer your learning in school as “plug and chug” and I’m assuming that you feel this way about Pre-Calc. Well, if this is the case, I am confused because from what I remember, the term “plug and chug” originated from QG telling us to not “plug and chug.” I also remember how you once talked to Tati about how you two zoned me out when I asked “why” questions so that my questions wouldn’t confuse the two of you.
You say, “I am tired of there only being one way to get one right answer,” and well, I don’t understand this comment either. In math, there are countless ways to solve a problem. Currently in Pre-Calc, we’re learning about trigonomic identities, this subject strongly portrays the fact that there are multiple ways to find a solution to a problem. I even remember McDonale saying today that there are many ways to solve “trig identities.” Math encourages—not discourages—thinking. It encourages logical thinking.
PS. My memories could be flawed, and if you feel that they are, I will be glad to hear your refutations of my memories. In no way am I suggesting that my memories are solid, perfect, or even real. If you feel my memories are not legitimate, please say so because I will happily accept your assertions.
Taylor P.-
ReplyDelete"School is a formality. It does not; under any circumstance prepare us for the real world. At least traditional schooling doesn’t. What does school do for us then? It teaches us meaningless crap that we will NEVER use. Ok I’m totally just ranting about math right now, but still."
Hahaha, great intro, and I couldn't agree with you anymore than I already do. School is a formality, and it sickens me to see it so strict and traditionalized. "Here's Cosin X...solve it." Okay Mrs. Baird, here's a question: How is this going to help me with life!? About 60% of these blogs refer to Calculus in some way. Anyways, you make a valid argument in your blog, and your persuasive way of writing makes it difficult to disagree. So good job, as always.
Honestly, I did not like the article. I do not like how Wagner sets a standard for education. His explanation of American schools may be a little bit true, but it’s about an EDUCATION, not a business. I think when someone thinks of the word education, the first thing that appears in their mind is, school. School is a societal institution built for the purpose to teach us about things that we may once want to pursue as a career. Although I hate what the system of education has become in the united states--a business for the “big guys,”--when I just think about the fact that we have been given an opportunity to learn subjects so complex that took decades, centuries and millennia to unravel, I am grateful. Many people in the United States take school for granted, but there are kids in other countries around the world begging for a chance to go to school, begging for a chance to have an opportunity to become someone knowledgeable and understanding of aspects of our world. Most people just don’t take that into consideration, and I think they should.
ReplyDeleteSince a lot of people do not appreciate the opportunity we have been given, they don’t see the benefit that school has for us. I know to many, learning antiderivatives and integrals in calculus is pointless and will have no use of them in their career, but people have spent hundreds of years studying mathematics simply for the pure beauty of learning and discovering. Now I’m not saying we should all love calculus, but we should appreciate the learning experience.
I think that maybe the way you look at education is all in the head. The way you feel about learning and knowledge is your own view. This is kind of random, but when I think about knowledge, I remember and episode of “The Avatar” on Nick where the characters meet an old, wise owl in an isolated desert library filled with perhaps millions of books. When the library began to sing beneath the earth into the sand, the kids ran out but the owl decided to stay. I do not exactly remember what he said, but it was something about how he will take his love of knowledge and wisdom to his grave where it will live on forever. Now that is a passion for learning just for the beauty of filling our limitless minds with ideas of the world. And that is what I believe so many people lack. Perhaps it is because they strive to pursue careers that pay well so that they do not have to worry much about money, I’m not sure. But I think the fact that in the United States education has become more of a business where students must pay to learn is ridiculous and is the reason why so many are giving up. There are those still who have not given up and stay in school just to learn and those are the ones that will grow wiser than those aiming to earn more money and high positions for a company. I do not have expectations for school on how or what we learn other than we should learn. It does not matter what you learn because I think you can turn any subject into a career.
I want to be an astronaut. I will not really need to know rhetorical devices to become one, but I learn it anyways just to learn it. It does not hurt to gain knowledge, so I don’t see what the big deal is in learning something even if you won’t do anything in that field. Although I believe we all come out as changed individuals from high school, I do not think that high school alone will prepare us for our future careers. College plays into that as well, so we can’t just put all the pressure and expectations on high school.
For the AP classes Wagner explained, I think we are lucky here in Oakcrest with our AP courses. I think we have far better experience in our classes than people in other parts of the country do. Our teachers care more, and the classes are not as boring as Wagner described. Last year I went into AP Government hating politics and I came out with a newfound interest in how things work and the art of politics. So I think we are slightly better off than most students.
The quintessential curriculum is usually filled with classes that teach students how to drop numbers in multiple formulas for x-- the solution. But why? Why do we do this?
ReplyDeleteYes, math teacher, I understand that I signed up for this honors course, but what does this solution mean to me? When will I need? Will it teach me how to have a stable relationship with my family? Will it teach me how to stop spending money? Will this make me grow as a more respectable human being?
A few months ago, I stumbled upon a site that stated that high-school labs today are detrimental to our own curiosity and integrity to look deeper into the depths of mystery. This may sound far-fetched, as we believe that labs are just labs, but think of it, we're told to only put a certain amount of chemicals into something else. No more, no less. Do not sniff it, do not taste it, and do not mess with it. But doesn't that defeat the purpose of scientific method? Aren't we supposed to look for the deeper meanings in the unknown?
Steve Jobs once said, "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower. " However, the schools are making us into mere numbers. We're the bubbles we fill in on scan-trons. We're our GPAs. Now, maybe I'm crazy, but this schooling is making us into robots. It's inhumane-- we're no longer humans when this system is taken place.
However, the most leaders of this world are above this. They want innovation. They want a spark, they want more than just facts and observations. They want fresh, new ideas. They want thinkers to ask questions, and they want philosophers to inquire, "why?"
The article, I thought, was an eye opener about the skills companies look for. I really had no idea, that the boss or manager (whoever is in charge of hiring people) number one priority is to look at a person’s ability to ask questions. I’ve always thought that you had to have the brain to fit in perfectly fine but as Wagner describes it, that’s not what these CEO execs are looking for. It all makes sense. I understand that it is a way of learning more, than to stick solely to the book. Communication is key when it comes to comprehending, and I can’t agree even more.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I got out from the reading and apply it here, I’d say if I were to become one of these workers in the company I would not make it. I’ve always taken that asking questions is not always good because there are such things as ‘stupid questions’. And from the teachers I’ve had the previous years they weren’t all that thrilled having to answer questions. I‘m not saying that all teachers are like that, there are those that are avid in their teaching and encourage students to reach out to them for help.
However teachers are not at fault completely, our education system mostly is. Wagner has observed very similar to the classes I’m taking, with the exception of few of my AP classes this year. He’s absolutely correct when it comes to test taking and totally forgetting everything about it afterwards. It’s very unfortunate because I value knowledge but I’m so fed up with so much work to receive a good grade for colleges that the value of education compared to getting good grades seems less. Also he mentions how students are not as enthusiastic in class and that there aren’t enough people that are open to have discussions or ask questions. I can picture myself as one of those students shrugging when some chemical compound explodes… partly because I abhor chemistry and also I’m too busy shooting to have a good grade.
So in the outside world when I want to become a doctor, and doctor’s need a lot on their plate, I really doubt I would be a special candidate if I were to become one right now. I simply don’t have those skills and I never would have known that it is the companies or businesses predominant force. I know it’s important to ask questions for clarification but as a way of being part of the team and exercising critical thinking abilities are farfetched. I see now that memorizing tests is a fail, it won’t help me. I believe though, that if I were serious and enjoy what I’m taking that the mode of how I think would change. In college, hopefully I’ll be a better student….
It’s not only the educational system that students in high school have become this way, it’s partly our fault to… well mine, for being intellectually lazy(?). Or maybe I’m being too harsh on myself. What I’m saying is that we all have the ability to be a better student. We all have the ability to fit into those category of skills if we drive ourselves to have a better interest on subjects and actually attempt to acquire knowledge, just not for grades. I do really wish our educational system would be better, it would compel me from being something we all dread-- that student who has no enthusiasm to learn ( I know it sounds cheesy. I value education, don’t get me wrong. I love to learn but it’s really hard when all you want to do is sell yourself out for colleges and nothing else after that matters. Like I said, I hope in college I won’t be so worried and that I’ll have that skill of asking questions that’ll better prepare me when I’m performing surgery with a team of surgeons. (I actually don’t want to be a surgeon but you get what I mean… hopefully :])
Maryam R:
ReplyDelete“Now I’m not saying we should all love calculus, but we should appreciate the learning experience.”
O the joy of calculus. I actually like it, even though I’m falling behind but regardless of that I agree with this point. When it really comes down to it, we have to take education into a matter of our own hands. However here in the US, many students don’t see these benefits of how fortunate they are to receive education so it’s difficult to view it as an enjoyable experience. I agree with your emphasis of how knowledge is beauty and you used one of my favorite episodes (Avatar) as an example. Really liked it, I could feel your passion.
Kyle S:
I truly believe that what you said about pointing out flaws is a great way for our mind to expand and grow. And of course that constant practice of overcoming that obstacle. Anyways, I also agree with your ending as well (See you can tell I read it all :]).. And I guess everything else in between. Students in AP classes well here the ones I am in now are more capable to fit in the ‘world around them’ because we are taking challenges and taking challenges are a good thing. I really like this point. I liked your blog as well, it was amusing :]
Kristen D:
I feel the same way you do. I blame myself as well, but wouldn’t you also be blaming teachers or the educational system too if you’re not receiving this push that’ll help you succeed? Anyways, I don’t think it matters. Haha. It’s true it ultimately depends on us if we want to excel or change things about us. But I’m sure Kristen with the challenges you are taking on with AP classes, and I give credit for those who take it because I believe their tough, that you’ll find your way. That by taking challenges, I believe help prepare us for the world around us (kind of got that from Kyle). I think its because you have senioritus you feel that way right now…
Sarah L : “Still, I wouldn’t trade these lessons for a 5 on the test. I believe education should change you. Facts alone should be able to grab you and force you to see the world differently.”
ReplyDeleteI completely and wholeheartedly agree with you. I don’t think that these standardized testing should be the determining factor of how ‘smart’ we are. I can safely say that everyone here is smart and intelligent enough to have a successful career, but standardized tests (or tests in general) could be the one ditch in our path that buts us through troubles to get out of. But I agree because I think education is often misunderstood and you clear up what is should be and what it is. Its not about the grades or test scores, its about what you get out of learning everything.
Kale: “If school does not prepare you to be a perfect replacement and to fit neatly into a tidy slot in society, big deal. The purpose of school in the first place shouldn’t be to make everyone interchangeable parts. As Mr. Matlack has on his wall of sententious sayings, the purpose of education is to teach society the right from the wrong and give them the wisdom to prefer the right over the wrong.”
I like that you referred to Mr. Matlack. The other day I asked him about how I was glad he could stay after school to help me anytime, and he explained to me about how God gave him the gift of teaching in life and he wouldn’t let anything stop him from giving us the knowledge he was gifted with by God. Honestly, Mr. Matlack and Mr. Cervi come to school everyday with a greater love for teaching than the day before and I am so grateful for that. In both AP Chemistry and AP History I not only learn the subject, but I learn other aspects about life that both teachers expose us to because of their pure love for teaching, and I couldn’t ask for more in a teacher.
Roo- I’m sorry but I have to disagree with a lot of what you have said.
“The medical field, and anything science related, is constantly evolving and in order to succeed you must evolve with it. However with the lessons taught to us in most of our classes, I do not feel like I am evolving. I am stuck in one intellectual-stunted level, not rising nor sinking. If I were to leave right now and try my hand at the medical field, I would return a failure. That is the bottom line. I used to have an imagination. Used to be able to be innovative and creative.”
The medical field is filled with math and sciences. If you feel right now that you are not learning much in your math class then how will you go on to further your learning the subject at a higher level in college? I think that maybe you are the one convincing yourself that you won’t be ready because in the midst of all the work we have had in high school, your drive has slightly gone down. As for your imagination, I think that is all on you. You are the only person in control of your imagination so if its faded then it’s you who has made it fade away not school.
“I for one am very angry that we are constantly being forced to become boring gray blobs without thoughts.”
I don’t believe we are being forced into this at all. We will always have thoughts, its part of being human, but maybe because in math we cannot ‘express’ our thoughts but rather put them to use that it may seem that way to you. School shouldn’t be about “sponging up info that we will only forget in a week” it is only like that if you see it that way. Like I said, it’s all in the mind.